This Just In: Ifrit HM Now Requires i110

[Catwho]

I'm a 112 WAR working on relic. I glance at the class and HP of the other tank and make a snap decision on whether I should take off defiance or not.

In fact, I made a handy dandy flow chart for it:

[Kathryn]

I'm a 112 WAR working on relic. I glance at the class and HP of the other tank and make a snap decision on whether I should take off defiance or not.

In fact, I made a handy dandy flow chart for it:

This I love may I have it for future reference?

[KaiKatzchen]

I'm a 112 WAR working on relic. I glance at the class and HP of the other tank and make a snap decision on whether I should take off defiance or not.

In fact, I made a handy dandy flow chart for it:

That is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen~! <3

[Chukkaque]

Anyone who tells you "Come back with i110" gear for a fight that old, is just bad in general. People are just upset because they wanted to speed run and ended soiling themselves because god forbid we ever do the original mechanics from time to time.

You're fine, they're just a spoiled bunch. Though...you should have provoke haha

[Krylo]

Swap war and pld in pretty much every spot there in order to get proper meta.

(Good) Wars have better HP smoothing due to being able to inner beast every large attack by saving on the use of wrath stacks until necessary + infuriate when wrath stacks aren't there (Also, unchained + berserk + bloodlust combo is just great for self heals, and thrill of battle is another good self heal to aid HP smoothing). Paladins have more CDs but you can't put up Sentinel or Rampart on every tank buster like Wars can, and bulwark isn't perfectly reliable for taking the edge off those big hits. And even if it were, a pld can, on average, have a CD up every 45 seconds, while a War can inner best every 12 seconds (~15 seconds for 7 gcds with end game gear + 1 extra inner beast from infuriate every 60 seconds, if necessary), and vengeance every 120 seconds, brings it up to War's being able to have a damage reducing ability up every 11 seconds. Granted, it's harder to time inner beast uses, because it's on GCD, but we're assuming a good war vs a good pld, because you should be trying to be good, not just decent (and a decent pld and decent war, the pld does probably have better HP smoothing because all the pld CDs are oGCD.) IT IS worth noting, however, that while paladins are going to get spiked more often, thanks to block rate blah blah etc. their constant non-spike damage will be lower, and they heal a little easier. This isn't saying Wars are better than Plds, just that they have better HP smoothing so they can take multiple spike damage hits in a fight without stressing healers, and are just as capable of staying alive.

Given the fact they can both pretty easily stay alive and hold aggro, the main reason war should be the default MT is that paladins do more damage in sword oath than warriors outside of defiance, while warriors in defiance do more damage than paladins in shield oath because paladins gain damage over their baseline when in their DPS stance, while Wars lose less DPS in their tank stance than listed because of wrath attacks ignoring the damage reduction plus the use of unchained AND, before anyone goes 'bluh bluh tanks aren't dps', tank DPS is calculated into minimum dps checks for content. It was just stated not long ago. Paladins also have an oGCD PBAoE threat generator in circle of scorn and can flash more often, making it easier for paladins to pick up disparate adds running around, and for single adds either tank class can pick them up easily.

The 'paladin is the better main tank' thing is an artifact of an earlier age when Wars were broken and a bit shit.

Though, I'll concede, given that most of the userbase is still caught up in the old meta of 'Pld is MT', it's probably just easier to let the paladin's main tank if they want to than trying to explain that. Besides, off tank is more fun. More going on with add pick ups and actually dealing with mechanics and stuff, instead of just standing in front of the boss.

Also, generally, as off tank you DO want to be using your aggro gaining combo, just not in tank stance (and, obviously, if you're war, keep up your paths as well). It will set you up to, unless you're out geared and/or have your rotation set up poorly, be the next person the boss turns to if the main tank dies, instead of a healer or DPS, thus saving you a provoke/it turning and gibbing a melee DPS before you can get provoke + some other aggro generator off, and if you need to avoid using your aggro combo to avoid ripping threat when you're generating ~2/3 the threat by default (tank stance = 75% potency, with enmity then doubled = ~150% enmity potency) by not being in tank stance, the other guy is probably going to have issues holding from any competent DPS you were lucky enough to get forcing the DPS to choose between ripping aggro or prolonging the fight (and, in any content that isn't outgeared, risk missing minimum DPS checks/making the fight last long enough to run healers oom), AND you're destroying your own DPS in the process.

[Ashkendor]

I'm a 112 WAR working on relic. I glance at the class and HP of the other tank and make a snap decision on whether I should take off defiance or not.

In fact, I made a handy dandy flow chart for it:

As a Paladin, pray tell how am I supposed to not use a threat rotation? Spam Riot Blade? Autoattack?

Honestly, if I don't wanna tank I just come into the fight with Sword Oath up. The other tank usually gets the picture and pulls. If I notice that the other tank is undergeared, I'll turn Shield Oath on and pull because they wouldn't be able to hold threat off me DPS'ing anyway so there's no use in me insisting on it. If we both just stand there out of our tanking stances for a few moments staring at each other cause neither of us wants to tank, I'll turn Shield Oath back on and pull because there's no sense in standing around. In the case that I'm on Warrior I do the same, but if the other tank is undergeared it's kind of whatever since I at least have non threat generating skills to use in DPS'ing.

[Urthdigger]

Try to brush off their comments. They're DPS after all, their opinion doesn't matter. Just keep working away at it, you'll get geared up sooner or later.

[Catwho]

As a Paladin, pray tell how am I supposed to not use a threat rotation? Spam Riot Blade? Autoattack?

Honestly, if I don't wanna tank I just come into the fight with Sword Oath up. The other tank usually gets the picture and pulls. If I notice that the other tank is undergeared, I'll turn Shield Oath on and pull because they wouldn't be able to hold threat off me DPS'ing anyway so there's no use in me insisting on it. If we both just stand there out of our tanking stances for a few moments staring at each other cause neither of us wants to tank, I'll turn Shield Oath back on and pull because there's no sense in standing around. In the case that I'm on Warrior I do the same, but if the other tank is undergeared it's kind of whatever since I at least have non threat generating skills to use in DPS'ing.

That's why the PLD is probably going to be the MT in nearly every situation, as the flowchart indicates. (Unlike the poster who is above you, who doesn't get that fact.) PLD's main damage rotation is the threat rotation. They can't help it. WAR, on the other hand, has two amazing WS rotations that don't generate nearly as much threat AND provide beneficial debuffs. If the WAR is the off tank, the WAR can use the debuff WS on the boss and make life easier on the paladin and boost DPS. WAR can turn off Defiance and put out some pretty rad damage, unlike a PLD. WAR is better suited for crowd control, and thus off tanking, where they need to scoop up a bunch of adds.

I'm a 10K HP warrior. I can't hold hate against an 8K HP paladin and I don't even want to try.

[Kerwin]

Dragoon could have tanked that fight for you. Keen flurry all day every day baby.

[Noshpan]

Even though I dps, I don't pull unless I have permission. I live by the "If you are a non-tank and you pull it then you get the honors of tanking it while everyone laughs at you as you get face-melted."

Prior to glamours, I was able to tell from a glance if a tank was geared/over-geared/under-geared. Now it's a little bit difficult. But if I find a tank that's under-geared (compared to the majority of the party) then I am far more forgiving and I don't go out all. I try to match the pace of the tank's/tanks' abilities.

Sounds like the group was bad, OP.