Is it time for SE to give PLDs a good bump in terms of DPS?

[Syfer22]

All DPS aren't of equal value. BRD do generally less DPS but have far more raid utility, BLM do a lot more on AoE, etc...

Balance is more than just personnal damage numbers.

And then there's class synergy, like BRD versus BRD attacking a Disemboweled target.

[Dualblade]

From what I've heard about WAR versus PLD, isn't there usually a difference in actual HP amounts? If not then nix what I said; apparently HP tanking as a class feature is something that happens in other MMOs and not so much here.

And to make sure I'm on the same page as you, does "eHP" mean "effective HP?" Not a term I'm too familiar with, so I wanted to make sure.

Paladin's have a lot more mitigation, so something that hits a WAR for 5k is going to do a bit less to PLD's outside of certain abilities that always do the same amount of damage (and usually those just plain wipe you no matter what anyways.) A PLD with 7k health, if he changed over to WAR with the exact same gear set-up, would have about upper 8-lower9k health with Defiance on. Your WAR example there would have had the PLD with 9k health, and this enough mitigation to survive that damage.

[Syfer22]

Paladin's have a lot more mitigation, so something that hits a WAR for 5k is going to do a bit less to PLD's outside of certain abilities that always do the same amount of damage (and usually those just plain wipe you no matter what anyways.) A PLD with 7k health, if he changed over to WAR with the exact same gear set-up, would have about upper 8-lower9k health with Defiance on. Your WAR example there would have had the PLD with 9k health, and this enough mitigation to survive that damage.

So only a 1-2k HP difference? Huh... I'm starting to think it's WARs that need a buff.

[Ultimatecalibur]

From what I've heard about WAR versus PLD, isn't there usually a difference in actual HP amounts? If not then nix what I said; apparently HP tanking as a class feature is something that happens in other MMOs and not so much here.

Outside of Defiance, a level 50 Warrior will have only 85 more hp than a level 50 Paladin if they have the same amount of bonus points distributed to Vit. When Defiance is up Warriors get a +25% hp bonus and a +20% heal bonus in comparison to the Paladin's -20% damage taken.

And to make sure I'm on the same page as you, does "eHP" mean "effective HP?" Not a term I'm too familiar with, so I wanted to make sure.

Yes, eHP means effective hp. A Paladin with 9k base hp will have 9k actual hp and 11250 effective HP while Shield Oath is active. A Warrior with 9k base hp will have 11250 actual and effective hp in Defiance. Meaning that iit will take the same number of attacks to bring them both down.

[Launched]

So only a 1-2k HP difference? Huh... I'm starting to think it's WARs that need a buff.

No offense, but you have neither tank class at 50 so you have no idea how their mitigation works or compares. WAR's 25% HP boost and 20% healing increase is pretty much identical to Shield Oath, and they both have the same base HP outside of tank stances. They have the same eHP in equal gear.

[SirTaint]

All DPS aren't of equal value. BRD do generally less DPS but have far more raid utility, BLM do a lot more on AoE, etc...

Balance is more than just personnal damage numbers.

Equal value. Not sure how else to read that. DPS+Raid utility they are all very even. Some do more DPS, so some more utility.

[Dualblade]

So only a 1-2k HP difference? Huh... I'm starting to think it's WARs that need a buff.

WAR actually was lagging behind a bit at launch from what I've read, but since has gotten better and now both do very well. I will say that PLD's tend to be the go to for main tanking, while still having a WAR there instead of stacking two would be preferable. And of course WARs can main tank all content, though some it takes a bit more work.

Level your tanks up and try em out!

[Syfer22]

No offense, but you have neither tank class at 50 so you have no idea how their mitigation works or compares. WAR's 25% HP boost and 20% healing increase is pretty much identical to Shield Oath, and they both have the same base HP outside of tank stances. They have the same eHP in equal gear.

None taken, I'm aware I don't have either up to 50 -- Just taking principles of job classes from other MMOs and seeing if they hold true here.

A question I have, though, is if they're pretty much identical (+HP/healing versus +20% damage mit) what's the point? In other games there were fights where you'd want a class with higher HP to help with spikes, and other fights where you wanted the sheer damage mit. Are there no fights like that in this game?

I have a level 50 DRG right now so I've at least DONE the endgame fights, just not as a tank.

[Reynhart]

Some do more DPS, so some more utility.

It's the same for tanks.
With the new skills (As far as we know), having a PLD will reduce damage taken for the whole raid.

[SirTaint]

Sure, but they can't make tanks so different that content is not doable with any combo. Think about 2.0 when people would bail in DF if both tanks were WARs and most coil groups were double PLD.

SE is designing jobs so they all bring similar benefits to the raid as a whole.