So, even Wildstar is going f2p...

[Solaria_Luna]

Now i fixed it and made the lala a pic of my sisters toon :P she can kill me later

Now that is even funnier because Lala's do look like children...her pose in that pic is perfect.

I played Wildstar at launch. After one month, I was bored and unsubscribed. They really hyped that game and had did well in terms of box sales. The game was not that bad, but it was obviously not ready for release. I blame NCSOFT more for this than Carbine. The guys at Carbine were kind of cocky came off like douchebags at times and this along with an unfinished game, caused a TON of people (like me) to not subscribe at all or drop out after one month or so.

I hate to see any big name MMO fail, because it hurts the genre as a whole, but the REAL issue here is perfectly clarified by Wildstar. It COULD have been a good game at launch, but development teams like Carbine have to basically sell their souls to publishers like NCSOFT. This is why Wildstar went free to play, NCSOFT would have pulled the plug, but figured this was the last ditch effort to regain some of the money they had sunk into advertising and publishing. Business has a way of getting in the way of game development when they push for an early return on their investment or demand that a game be pushed out months before it is truly ready to meet some quota or deadline for marketing.

FFXIV and WoW do not have a publisher to "pay back". They basically use their own money to fund and develop the game. This is why you will probably never see these games change the subscription model to a "ftp" system.

I agree with this...I swear XIV and XI are part of the reason why Square-Enix continues to make Single Player Final Fantasys. (as well as keeping these games going - which is the bigger reason)[I bet if it weren't for the MMO's Final Fantasy would have ended at X/X-2. Though I bet it keeps the whole department alive.]

[CrystalRainbow]

The way I look at it...

FFXIV 1st MMO to from P2P to F2P(not P2W) to P2P. I think that says a lot. If they where going to go F2P they would have made that call when they re did the whole game.

[DreadRabbit]

Most games that make the switch to F2P are ran by dev teams that, quite frankly, did not know how to set reasonable goals and didn't pick a payment system that fit their resources and work schedules. We're in an age where for some reason, many game developers across genres have forgotten how to build a game on a reasonable budget so that they can see reasonable returns (or in SE's case with the Tomb Raider remake, they spent so much on advertising that despite it's ridiculous success it was still a "failure" financially). That's why you see so many Kickstarter projects return and ask for money after they got their initial asking donation. Or turn right around and have to change everything because they weren't able to keep the big promises that were made.

The fact that FFXIV is talked about in the same general area of MMOs as WoW does mean something pretty significant, regardless of how one personally feels about either game or SE and Blizzard. It means they know how to make the sub model work. A lot of these newer games that try to fly out the gate with a P2P model just do not have the content, lack of bugs, or a unique enough niche to warrant the sub.

And investors/publishing companies also play a huge role when it comes to these decisions. Half the reason why we get so many half-baked games across genres these days is because investors/publishers are much like impatient gamers: they want that game and they want it now. Unlike gamers, they don't care if the game is unique or ground breaking. All they care is that the game fits in a trend with all the other successful products already on the market so they can have guaranteed money. Which puts devs in a huge bind. SE doesn't have that problem, yet. For the time being they're their own boss with their own wallets to use, which lets them do what they want on their schedule.

I don't think we have anything to worry about, personally. Unless they truly do something stupid (and yes, there are many ways they potentially could), I don't think we'll see FFXIV go F2P. Even if it does, FFXVI, or,XVII, or whatever will be out and most of us will have moved on to that instead.

[Delily]

The fact that FFXIV is talked about in the same general area of MMOs as WoW does mean something pretty significant, regardless of how one personally feels about either game or SE and Blizzard. It means they know how to make the sub model work. A lot of these newer games that try to fly out the gate with a P2P model just do not have the content, lack of bugs, or a unique enough niche to warrant the sub.

It means that despite people's calls otherwise, what the MMO market wants are more raiding MMOs. That's nothing new, as both Everquest and it's predessor, DikuMUD also proved the same. However, not all F2P games are throwaway, LOTRO still proves you can take a sub game, make it F2P, and do well.

[Catwho]

The way I look at it...

FFXIV 1st MMO to from P2P to F2P(not P2W) to P2P. I think that says a lot. If they where going to go F2P they would have made that call when they re did the whole game.

XIV 1.0 more accurately went B2P, not F2P. You didn't have a sub fee, but you still did have to purchase a copy of the game to play.

[Edellis]

That said, the f2p model hate is silly. Everyone acts like it ruins great games, but in reality most games go f2p because they are doing so poorly. I mean how great were they that so few were playing them? Most that go f2p see increased profits. f2p has outright saved many games in this genre that simply wouldn't exist today had they not switched.

My problem isn't with P2P games that go F2P, it's with MMOs that are F2P from the start. The only current P2P > F2P game I think i can say I legitimately enjoy playing is TERA Online. Probably because it started out as a P2P game, and it's combat design is extremely solid. I'd say the only reason TERA wasn't a successful P2P game is because it was designed around a F2P strategy, which nobody in life will willingly pay to experience.



Destiny is an example of a game that would likely be soooooo much better if it just started off subscription based. The game base is solid, but its content is spread horrifically thin across itself. People have been calling it grindy and unrewarding since launch and multiple expansions later...and the sad truth is that it has no choice but to be this way.

Yoshi P is one of the most outspoken anti-f2p game devs out there.

And his reasoning for it is pretty much the best one.
Would you rather the devs be working on the best content they can or the best ways to wring money out of the playerbase?

It's why I adore him so much. He's outspoken on alot of things that developers don't draw issues with, but players usually do. He designs from the viewpoint of the player, and ARR seems to be driven mostly with this philosophy behind it, which is probably why it resonates with people the way it does.

ARR doesn't do anything particularly special, but what it has, it does pretty well.

[Airget]

And what has this got to do with FF14 you ask?

Nothing, there's no reason to bring Wildstar up, it was a gimmicky game that couldn't live up to the hype.

[Theonekitten]

The thing is, the producers of these MMOs that went f2p said the same thing. Look at Rift. They said, "we will never go f2p" and 6 months later, went back on it. Plans change over years. I am just hoping that this plan will never change for FF14.

FFXI didn't get changed to f2p. I would assume SE would change that one first before even touching XIV.

[KaijinRhada]

A huge problem WoW has is its huge gaps between content.
If you lot think XIV has a content drought now, Mists of Pandaria received no content updates for 18 months, its first new content was the pre-WoD events ...
Even now, Its 6+ months between updates, and those updates are incredibly anemic, usually consisting of 1 new raid and some bug fixes + class rebalancing. Sometimes a new Daily Quest hub also.

The rapid, constant updates XIV is doing is part of its success, in my opinion. I sincerely hope this cycle continues into Heavensward.

I agree with much of your post (and with similar feelings on WoW). I also agree that the gap between releasing content in WoW is growing ever more problematic, but I would also argue that FFXIV really can't afford the same gaps. WoW has a player base tenure going for them, and while it definitely sucks a lot (Mists felt like it went on forever and is probably the last straw with content droughts), they know they can still get people coming back when new content is implemented (but seriously, they need to stop doing that -.-). FFXIV doesn't have the same quite the same luxury as WoW despite both having great franchises behind them. SE might not have to release content as often, but that is probably not a risk they would want (or can afford, never mind thinking of a gap as long as WoW's) to take with all things considered.

[Zumi]

It wasn't that great of a game and the devs figure they can make more money by making it F2P and selling people stuff on the cash shop then running a sub service. FFXIV on the other hand has the FF name and a lot more devoted fans so it probably won't go F2P any time soon.