(Serious) White Mage and Scholar are equally balanced.

[mp-please]

Because scholar having the hands down best heal in the game is really balanced? Give white mages a heal that is instant cast and isnt on a 5 minute cooldown then call it a day.

You didn't really learn anything from http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...n-real-content now did you?

[Tint]

Because scholar having the hands down best heal in the game is really balanced? Give white mages a heal that is instant cast and isnt on a 5 minute cooldown then call it a day.

please play your scholar and be happy and don't try to destroy the white mage. this is an multiplayer game. it is the idea that the sch is better in single target heal, so the whm is better in aoe heal. we are supposed to combine the strengh of both classes together, not be good in everything.

[Parawill]

Depending on what the SCH is healing, this is an exaggeration. Besides, why waste 6 Lustrates like that? Rather just let Eos do Fey+WD and Succor.

Yes, a Scholar could do that but like you said, it was for the sake of comparison. Scholars are amazing single target burst healers and White Mages are amazing AoE burst healers.

That's like saying the SCH would have restored a Single target to max before WHM could get out a Cure II. >w>

It is fair in a way. There are situations that shift resource management into catching up in heals vs. time/damage output. If you need the strength of a Cure II, Lustrate is generally better unless you have the time to cast the Cure II, but I understand what you mean. :-) I do admit that I left my post way too open for interpretation. I should have been more specific.

Anyways, I think Vlad thinks Lustrate is "the greatest heal" in the game as its an off-GCD heal that sees frequent use. I believe it's a great heal in how it helps catches up on healing between GCDs, which effectively puts a healer one or two GCDs above in healing. Though great, the Lustrate vs. Benediction comparison isn't fair either--haha. Reason being is that Benediction's main use is to reset healing to neutral* so that your heals can now match with the damage output. That's why it has such a high cooldown! Though people question why a tank would fall so low on health and the answer to that would be progression and/or mistakes.

Now I'm not going to go in-depth here as I see no point, but the way I see Scholars vs. White Mage is that they're both amazing, but the preference over one another is very situational.

Anyways... I think I'm just going to keep reading now since a certain someone is throwing statements and not backing it up with facts, theories and whatnot. *sigh*


-----

*The most basic way I look at healing through damage output vs. time until next damage vs. healing output vs. time until next heal. This is broken down into three levels: positive, neutral and negative.

Positive = Healing GCD is above damage output. This means you're ahead in healing and do not need to use cooldowns to "catch up on healing."

Neutral = You're head-to-head against damage. If you're not prepared for a tank buster or group raid-buster (a.k.a you need cooldowns and shields), then you may fall into the negatives in healing.

Negatives = Damage output is greater than your healing output. A great example is when you're trying to heal in Cleric Stance. *laugh*

[Yona87]

Theres a lot of things my SCH can pull of in coil compared to my WHM, its not even comparable.

[Risvertasashi]

Yes, a Scholar could do that but like you said, it was for the sake of comparison. Scholars are amazing single target burst healers and White Mages are amazing AoE burst healers.

[...]

It is fair in a way. There are situations that shift resource management into catching up in heals vs. time/damage output. If you need the strength of a Cure II, Lustrate is generally better unless you have the time to cast the Cure II, but I understand what you mean. :-) I do admit that I left my post way too open for interpretation. I should have been more specific.

Anyways, I think Vlad thinks Lustrate is "the greatest heal" in the game as its an off-GCD heal that sees frequent use.

In response to the bolded -- on a tank, my cure II (unbuffed) heals for more than lustrate (on DPS it's essentially useless except as a panic button). Cure I is slightly behind lustrate but divine seal makes it slightly ahead. Neither of these spells have a 3 times per minute limitation, and a good WHM really should be precasting so the cure lands just as the damage does.

Not that lustrate isn't amazing in its own way. Emergency 75% burst restore but a SCH really isn't playing at their best if they're healing reactively like that. One of my personal favorites is to precast adlo (or even just physick if conserving MP) to land just after a decent to big hit and then lustrate right after that. So it's a heal and shield followed by another instant heal -- gives them back a big chunk of health and, well, shield is a shield.

Of course it also has the utility of being useable in cleric stance.

Similarly, Cure III can make those giga/teraflares seem like nothing. However, how often do you need to get topped up that quickly? Sure, there's a couple times, but illumination + rouse + WD can really take a lot of load off the white mage and handle stuff entirely if you've got a little bit before the next big raid hit. The catch is uptime. Once it's on CD, it's on CD; can't use it no matter how badly it might be needed.

Bottom line? What the OP said. You don't even need to make it single target vs aoe.

The healers are equally balanced.

[416to305]

To each his own I guess, I'm a WHM and can't stand playing scholar, I hate having to deal with the pet thing I just don't find it enjoyable for some reason. No offense to the scholars out there, I don't enjoy tanking or melee either as my main is Bard. On paper sure maybe one might be better than another, who knows, but I absolutely have no interest in playing SCH or SUM so to me even if it was a proven fact they are much better, I still wouldn't want to do it. I think like another poster said it's really about player skill, as that's really what matters the most, being able to predict attacks or see them coming and proactively heal and what not. There's more to it than just standing there hitting cure over and over and over. I'm sure eventually I'd give it another try, but leveling ACN to get to 15 for WHM was like torture for me. My good friend is a SCH and he has NO idea how to play at all, he'll be in a dungeon and people are constantly telling him what to do because he has the wrong carbuncle up or whatever it is. At the end of the day what difference does it make, play what you enjoy playing and just be happy there's choice of 2 healers soon 3 so everyone can do what they like the most.

You know what IS annoying? The damn 1000 char limit on this stupid forum, what are we conserving bandwidth or something!?

[Risvertasashi]

You know what IS annoying? The damn 1000 char limit on this stupid forum, what are we conserving bandwidth or something!?

It was originally implemented as one of several counter-spam measures. You can bypass the limit by editing a post. There's been several petitions to remove the 1000chr limit or make it more generous but, as with many such things, SE has ignored them.

[416to305]

Yeah I just cut and paste when it's too long, it's just funny that it's there as 1000 isn't overly long.

[Parawill]

Bottom line? What the OP said. You don't even need to make it single target vs aoe.

The healers are equally balanced.

Yeah I don't need to make it single target vs. aoe, but I thought it was something some people overlooked. Both healers work together perfectly as they both have different strengths (and weaknesses).

On a tank, my cure II (unbuffed) heals for more than lustrate (on DPS it's essentially useless except as a panic button). Cure I is slightly behind lustrate but divine seal makes it slightly ahead. (A) Neither of these spells have a 3 times per minute limitation, and a (B) good WHM really should be precasting so the cure lands just as the damage does.

A. White Mage heals (excluding bene.) do not have a three use per minute limitation, but that's not the point. Lustrate is a great skill to have is because it's an off-GCD skill that doesn't require you to expend a GCD to catch up in healing. It's instant and is valuable in progression (and tank and/or healing mistakes) as it is a quick fix to damage wasn't anticipated. Of course Divine Seal + Cure Family is more potent and good White Mages should be precasting, but what this boils down to is that Lustrate > Cures in speed, especially in areas where you need certain levels of HP a.s.a.p. Thus, Scholars have the advantage of speed and off-GCD healing, whereas a White Mage is limited to whether or not to expend the use of Benediction or save it for a more critical moment.

(Also the 75% thing was just to be comparative to the usage of Benediction. Y'know, in case someone wants to pull out the Lustrate > Benediction card just because there are scenarios that favor Lustrate over Benediction).

B. There are multitudes of variables working against precasting, but in very good situations where my group is on-top of their game (this includes myself), I can precast and rarely fall behind healing. The times where I do fall behind healing are either:

• Mechanics requiring movement
• Tank missing (or using) cooldowns
• Taking avoidable damage (Love you lots, Megaflare)
• Burden of knowledge
• RNG Crit Damage (a string of them, like more than three)
• Positioning

Each situation requires me to shift how I heal as a White Mage and there are times where I'm just wishing I had another low CD version of Benediction because someone who needs to be at 100% takes some splash damage. The main one being is when a ranged DPS doesn't stack for a Cure III and everyone but that one person is not topped off for rage. So as a White Mage, I understand why people believe Lustrate is that awesome because I think it's amazing too.

(Note: I'm high-lighting a Scholar's strengths instead of a White Mages right now because I'm focusing on Lustrate. I am totally aware of how powerful our AoE heals are, especially our very potent Cures and our beast regen. Freaking love regen. <3)

P.S: Thank you for being respectful and dissecting (and reading) my post. I appreciate it a lot and it's making me think more!

Theres a lot of things my SCH can pull of in coil compared to my WHM, its not even comparable.

Yeah, but can your Scholar Holy in T13? Didn't think so. :P In all seriousness, yes you can DPS and I wont doubt you for being able to solo heal it; however, I don't think people will forgo the dynamic duo of Scholar + White Mage and just solo-heal with either of them or bring in doubles. Scholars and White Mages are too great together.

[mp-please]

Snip

Lustrate and cure II are literally the same skills in terms of usage (and not lustrate = benediction like some people say), the only difference is how one is insta cast. Yes i know cure II has mp cost but that allows whms to cast it regardless anything while scholar is bound by aetherflow stacks, same way as any good whm will weave cure Is with cure IIs for that freecure proc making both lustrate and cure II require no mp. If we think about it, on a good fight, cure II won't be used more than 3~6 times per min

I actually love how a lot of scholars boast that their lustrate is instant cast, however considering how every fight on this game is telegraphed anyone should be able to predict damage income as you get more experienced with the fight. The real lustrate advantage is to heal while on cleric stance with the instant cast lowering the dps downtime and to be able to heal a target instantly.