New Jobs Gated Behind Completion of 2.0 Story?

[Ayrie]

It's seen as a bait and switch, generates negative buzz, and affects growing the player base in a negative way.

I don't see how it does.

I can guess Square doesn't either.

Reasonable to assume the guys with MBAs wouldn't allow them to make that kind of decision.

Armchair board members

[StouterTaru]

errmm i guess you miss the point....heavenwards is the expansion of FF14.... then it's not a new game, it's the continuity of what we have already. if people want to get there, they need to reach this point in the story. it's like ask to have acces to a story without do what did happend before. people that will start it will feel left out and will not understand what happend. it's worst than all for a game where story is soo much important.

If the expansion was nothing more than a lengthening of the story, then what you say would make sense. Of course they would just call it 2.6, and not an expansion.

Its a baseless argument. New players already have to level to 50 (60) to be able to play with those that have been playing for longer.
By your logic that too would put new players off.

They don't have to level to 50 to get to Mor Dhona, or the two cities other than their starter city, or start a different class, or most other features of the game that aren't end game content. Playing a new level 30 job and flying mounts shouldn't be lumped into end game content gating.

[StouterTaru]

I don't see how it does.

I can guess Square doesn't either.

Reasonable to assume the guys with MBAs wouldn't allow them to make that kind of decision.

Armchair board members

Because no major game franchise has ever done something to alienate their new and/or existing players, because the MBAs won't let them.

[LineageRazor]

It's only 52 pages because people keep bumping it to further a pointless debate..

For a pointless debate, you sure seem to have a lot of investment in it. Your post count in this thread is nearly double mine!

I'm fine with. Took the time to get caught up. Got like 9 weeks, yah?

Seems like the issue is on our side, a lack of planning on your part doesn't something something dark side.

I'd say most, possibly even ALL of the players who have posted in this thread have ALREADY completed the 2.55 storyline. No one here is whining about things they themselves want to have without working for it. We've all done the work already, we've done the planning, and the dark side is no danger.

The concern is months from now, long after Heavensward release, new players who consider buying Heavensward along with the base game but turn it down because there's nothing worthwhile for them until they've played the base game for quite a while. Do they pay 20$ for the base game, or 40$ for the Heavensward/base game combo pack? Smart buyers will pay $20 - there's no guarantee that they'll like the base game, and the expansion is useless to them until after possibly months of casual play. Making the new jobs accessible would be a reason to buy the 40$ game instead of the 20$ - the expansion ISN'T useless, as there's three new jobs to try out in addition to the ten jobs/classes in the original set.

Even if they decide they don't like the game and quit, there's still that up-front payment. And who knows? Maybe a new player would have had more fun playing as one of the new jobs than as any of the old, and would have stuck with it if they'd only been able to play as AST or whatever.

errmm i guess you miss the point....heavenwards is the expansion of FF14.... then it's not a new game, it's the continuity of what we have already. if people want to get there, they need to reach this point in the story. it's like ask to have acces to a story without do what did happend before. people that will start it will feel left out and will not understand what happend. it's worst than all for a game where story is soo much important.

Again, let's not confuse "Something for the newbies to chew on" with "Allow newbies access to everything current players can access". Yes, there ARE things for which one should be gated behind the storyline. New jobs didn't HAVE to be among these things, but SE decided to make it so. I and others found this decision to be questionable.

There may be issues behind the scenes that lead to this decision which would make sense if we knew them. But we don't. So, confusion, disappointment, and a 54-page thread results.

[silentwindfr]

if they was jobs as we have, why not, but they are advanced jobs without class that can only be access from ishgarde.... but this city is closed until we complet the 2.55... meaning if they had give access to this class before people can get access to this city.... they will never be able to get the quest of the jobs. more important the whole story before the 2.1 will have no sense....since it tell at the player that the city is closed and it's tie to the main story quest. the whole part about the heretic and the accusation of our friend from coerthas will have no sense anymore.

what you ask is simply to rewrite the whole story for what? because that the point.

the 3 new jobs are tie to ishgarde... for make simple, every city states get 3 class/jobs (exept limsa with the SCH/SMN that come from the ACN). ishgarde will be the same.... but the story before the 2.1 tell us only one thing, Ishgarde is closed to stranger! everything said to use for the whole story is about this fact. then.... new jobs that tie to this city can't be get before get to the city. that the whole reason. no need to go farer for understand why. simply to remember the whole story so far.

ps: i will farer there, the story in FF14 is the most important point, they try to tell us a story since first day. no other mmorpg have done it as well than FF14. game like wow screw it own story at each expansion. the best example is cataclysm that did change the whole world of vanilla, but don't have affect the story of BC and lich king, leading to some really really important error in the story, making hard to really feel part of it or be able to follow it. it's sad for the new play to see a story killed for.... nothing. the story they know is different of the one the old player know. and most of the mmorpg do the same error.

in FF14 they try really hard to make the expansion a true continuity in the story. then i think the fact to have content gated behind story quest a small price to pay for make sure that the new player will experience the same story than us!

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Point

I really wouldn't mind that at all, if they went back and redid all the quests to make them 10% of what they are now. A lot of quests are just boring - have no story or meaning and are honestly - Stupid.

GO HERE AND SEE HOW XXX IS DOING! GO HERE AND DELIVER A BOX TO 7 PEOPLE, GO HERE AND GIVE UNIFORMS TO PEOPLE, GO FIND PEOPLE TO RECRUIT!

Cull all of that crap out of the quests. I'm a hero not a retainer.

Some of the quests I love, but 90% of it is completely filler. Remove those quests and make way for the important ones and I agree completely, but having to do 150 quests just to play your expansion is ridiculous!

You can cull all of those quests and make them 15 or even 10 quests instead. That would make it much funner for new players. Add 25000 - 45000 experience to them as well.

That way everyone is happy, the new players still do the jobs and learn the lore without having to shuffle through filler.

[Arkenne]

I agree there are many ways to implement the new jobs out of Ishgard, however the building you mentioned in Limsa is already established in the lore as the musketeer's guild (it used to be where the Arcanist's Guild is now, but it was moved in Coral Tower), complete with guildmaster (Rayner) and practictioners below. Machinist is a whole other thing, that I could've seen more fitting at the Garlond Ironworks workshop in Mor Dhona, maybe.

True that, altho the whole Machinist thing leaves in question wether Musketters will ever be a thing for real... after all, both uses guns and Machinist isn't maining a shotgun, rifle or machinegun, but a musket...

But yes, they might as well be placed in Mor Dhona.

[Ayrie]

Reasons to lock advanced jobs behind anything:

They are advanced.

They do not start at level one.

There is no associated class (so they can't start at 1)

Any story implications or background

Establishing WHY the trainer is wasting their time on you

Mechanics not meant for novices (these classes sound a hair complicated)

...

And we want to unleash this on novice players coupled with a community that is already not tolerant of mistakes?

And you think this will make them stay... By offering a complicated job at an advanced level in a community that runs off vets with its negativity for new players and mistakes?

Simply brilliant.

I work for a Fortune 500 Company and would love to see that kind of executive strategy implemented. Would you like an application?

[Zplinter]

Silentwindfr:
You made a good point about each city state having some classes/jobs that revolve around them. Your point here sort of falls off with the Ninja job that is not in a city (the class Rogue is, but the new jobs have NO class).

Why couldn't a warrior of light come from Ishgarde? If you started there then you are not in fact a stranger.

And again if the STORY is the end all and be all foundation, are you willing to have all of Thanalan shut off due to the current storyline events?

This is my first SE game, but with the exception of the WoLK (and Blizzard is on record saying the gating of the DK was a mistake) this is the first game I have encountered that locked away the playable classes from those that bought the expansion from day one.

[dice137]

All the time people have spent in here complaining about how things are gated behind completion of the MSQ... is time that could've been spent completing the MSQ.

As for the argument about making things more accessible to brand new players... why the silver platter? What exactly is it that they're entitled to?