Is it time for SE to give PLDs a good bump in terms of DPS?

[SpookyGhost]

Can you clarify?

You've sort of got the right idea, in that FoF does pseudo nullify Shield Oath, however your percentages are off.

Shield Oath lowers damage dealt by 20%. This is calculated first. So, lets say you start at 100 damage dealt, this would bring you down to 80. FoF increases physical damage dealt by 30% - so this is 30% of 80, not of 100. This leaves you with 80 + 24 = 104. So it nullifies the Shield Oath penalty, but only gains you 4/100 which is far from 10% extra.

However, this also doesn't come close to WAR's opening burst with 3 CDs to pop, and a Berserk buffed 300 potency attack. Basically, in tank stance, WAR blows PLD out of the water in terms of damage dealt. Outside of tank stance is where things get way closer, and PLD pulls ahead in most cases (especially since they maintain all CDs whereas WAR loses IB).

[VargasVermillion]

Shield Oath lowers damage dealt by 20%. This is calculated first. So, lets say you start at 100 damage dealt, this would bring you down to 80. FoF increases physical damage dealt by 30% - so this is 30% of 80, not of 100. This leaves you with 80 + 24 = 104. So it nullifies the Shield Oath penalty, but only gains you 4/100 which is far from 10% extra.

However, this also doesn't come close to WAR's opening burst with 3 CDs to pop, and a Berserk buffed 300 potency attack. Basically, in tank stance, WAR blows PLD out of the water in terms of damage dealt. Outside of tank stance is where things get way closer, and PLD pulls ahead in most cases (especially since they maintain all CDs whereas WAR loses IB).

Ah right, my mistake. I wasn't saying PLD wins in a tanking stance fight, WAR has far too many abilities that nullify the damage reduction I was just stating FoF works like unchained for shield oath in essence.

[SpookyGhost]

Yeah, I agree that FoF is more of an Unchained than a Berserk. It's one of the strongest DPS CDs in the game after all.

[stoxastic]

Can't really call FoF the same thing as Unchained. You an use FoF in Sword Oath but cannot get a boost in DPS from unchained out of defiance. FoF is comparable to berserk.

[Feylie]

Ah right, my mistake. I wasn't saying PLD wins in a tanking stance fight, WAR has far too many abilities that nullify the damage reduction I was just stating FoF works like unchained for shield oath in essence.

[Ditto]

Right now, no not at all. Completely optimal setup for max damage would be War MT, Pld OT.

One of War's big features is that they do more damage when they tank, and they TAKE more damage (And if anyone says it's because they have more HP, they're lying to themselves. Not taking damage is better than taking damage period.). Why should a Paladin get the advantage of doing a crap ton of MT DPS while not taking as much damage?

This is just one of those things they should not be equal in. When it comes down to it, the Paladin is the unmovable object, the stalwart wall, damage is not the entire focus of the class while in Shield Oath (Whether it's the PLAYERS focus or not). Warriors are the unstoppable forces, they need that damage while tanking because it's all they have over Paladins.

[Ehayte]

Right now, no not at all. Completely optimal setup for max damage would be War MT, Pld OT....

The only correct thing in your post was your first sentence. WAR and PLD have almost the exact same eHP, vitality held constant. WARs have just slightly less eHP, but its by like 2% or something. I really don't want to go through the math again, but if you have 1,000hp, take 500dmg, and recover 400 dmg from Cure I, it is the EXACT SAME as having 1,250 hp, taking 625dmg, and recovering 500hp. The first tank is at 900/1,000, or 90%, and the second tank is at 1,125/1,250, or the exact same 90%.

The reason most WARs seem squishier is because most of us STR spec because having a ton of HP is useless and we have a better recovery tool-kit, in additional to us being more comfortable in that space because we play in it more as OTs.

[Ditto]

The only correct thing in your post was your first sentence. WAR and PLD have almost the exact same eHP, vitality held constant. WARs have just slightly less eHP, but its by like 2% or something. I really don't want to go through the math again, but if you have 1,000hp, take 500dmg, and recover 400 dmg from Cure I, it is the EXACT SAME as having 1,250 hp, taking 625dmg, and recovering 500hp. The first tank is at 900/1,000, or 90%, and the second tank is at 1,125/1,250, or the exact same 90%.

The reason most WARs seem squishier is because most of us STR spec because having a ton of HP is useless and we have a better recovery tool-kit, in additional to us being more comfortable in that space because we play in it more as OTs.

Sure if tanks were all that mattered in a group.

[SirTaint]

PLDs shield give them an edge while MTing. A shield is like a perma -10% damage buff. They can also use shield swipe while MTing for higher DPS and less TP usage. The tricky part comes when the WAR uses Unchained to buff their own DPS and pulls a ton of hate.

This all assumes sword oath tanking with the same gear. If the defensive stance is needed WAR blows PLD out in the DPS department.

[Giantbane]

PLDs also lose a ton of DPS in shield oath compared to a defiance WAR.

Eh, sort of. A war also loses a fair amount of DPS if he has to drop down to full mitigation/threat mode using SP and BB. I think the numbers end up a lot closer if you compare PLD Shield Oath vs. WAR in Defiance doing only SP > BB (drop fracture for faster wrath).

WAR is just more flexible in that you can make trade offs for DPS, threat and mitigation to make the transition more gradual instead of just lopping off all your DPS potential when you go from Sword Oath > Shield Oath.