Opinions on superior body gear for SMN?

[Sunako]

It is just basic math

1 int = 0.284 det
1 int = 0.232 crit
1 int = 0.098 spell speed

demon robe = 31 x 0.284 det + 31 x 0.232 crit = 8.804 det + 7.192 crit = 15.996 int total
Augmented Robe = 47 x 0.232 crit + 33 x 0.098 spell speed = 10.904 crit + 3.234 spell speed = 14.138 int total
off stats overall difference = 1.858 more int from demon robe
all stats overall difference = 3.142 more int from Augmented Robe
result = Augmented Robe is better

[Judge_Xero]

IMO - Stat weights should be shown separately for Pet/Master.
I have no idea if those weights were calculated with Garuda, Ifrit or Titan or just the SMN by itself.

It would then be helpful if the Pet weights were listed being weighted against SMN stats as well. i.e. 1 INT may not effect the pet the same as the SMN

So without that, I think the current listed stat weights for SMN should be taken with a grain of salt.

[FoxyAreku]

It takes 8 det to =1 int. So 31 det is like saying you have + 4 int?

That's incorrect. 1 det is 0.3 of a main stat.

So really, 31 det is closer to 9 int >.>

[Ryuko]

Damage-wise, the Demon Robe is slightly better due to how the stats weigh in (as explored by others). However, they are, effectively, very similar. I personally go for the Augmented IW Robe for a few reasons...

1) Although the Demon Robe stats are slightly better, it is a reaaaaally close comparison.
2) I prefer having more VIT, because having more HP means more survivability... Some people won't care about this, and indeed there are only a few fights where it matters... but I like having it on those rare occasions where I'll benefit from it.
3) I don't feel like farming WoD for a (VERY CLOSE) comparable piece... If I get it, great. If it doesn't drop, I won't drive myself nuts over it.

I would also like to note that although SS, right now, is the absolute WORST stat for SMN (next to overstacking Acc, of course), it isn't completely useless. It will help (slightly) with Ruin fillers. Along with the adjustments made a few weeks ago, there is a muuuuuch lower risk of going OOM with regular filler spells. So, the added speed there is not completely useless... just the lowest priority. :P

In the end, it really is up to you. I hope the varied answers have been helpful.

[AniCelestine]

There was some post where it showed spellspeed affects garuda, but I don't know if it affects ifrit.

Also, I read on some summoner thread that only your weapon affects the damage your summon does. Ä

I haven't read more into those subjects nor have I made any tests. (I propably will once I get home from work and remember to do them) so I don't know for certain if these are true.

But if those two statements are correct I would say spellspeed weights more than stated earlier on this thread, and intelligence would scale less, assuming if accuracy and spellspeed affects garda, other 2nd stats would too and the claim of "only weapon affects the dmg" could had been that intelligence doesn't affect it, but the weapon damage, alongside 2nd stats.


So, if these two statements are indeed correct I would go and say the WoD chest piece is better.
But without any testing I can't guarantee that it is better, but still, the difference would be so marginal.


Edit: oh right and I don't even know if these things are already been factored into the stat weights posted earlier
As stated earlier I'm at work so this post might be a little skippy cause of phone.

[Ronove]

The difference I think is very VERY slim. I tested both bodies multiple times and I come up with very similar numbers. So I think it's really just up to preference and if you have one versus the other.

[Judge_Xero]

There was some post where it showed spellspeed affects garuda, but I don't know if it affects ifrit.

Does not effect Ifrit. Does effect Garuda - Correct

Also, I read on some summoner thread that only your weapon affects the damage your summon does.

MD, INT, DET, CRIT, SPD (Garuda only) all effect pet damage

The reason SPD is so bad is this -
2.5 GCD VS 2.3 GCD (203 Spell Speed) - All this equals is 2 Ruin casts (160 Potency) over the course of 60 seconds. Which is about a 2% increase in damage on SMN normal rotation (not including pet)
So @ 100 Spell Speed per 1% increase in Damage.

Compare that to Crit (Which effects dots as well as Ruins, Fester etc) @ ~ 28 Crit to 1% increase. (14 Crit = 1% crit chance @ 50% more damage)

So 1 Crit is about equal to 4 Spell Speed. Crit is weighted at 0.232 which puts SPD @ 0.06

Now let's include Ifrit due do it being far superior to Garuda who benefits 0 from Spell Speed and is roughly 35%-40% of SMN damage.

Changing that Spell Speed weight to - 0.036 overall.

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Why I think it's important to do pet weights on top of SMN weights.

As I think that current weights are calculated without the pet I will use them as a baseline. Using crit we can determine that (0.232 X 28 = 1% Damage increase) 6.496 or roughly the MD weight (28 X 0.232 = 6.496)

Testing Ifrit 1 MD is about a 1% Damage increase as well, but.....2.5 INT is also a 1% increase, 10 DET, and 28 Crit so you have

MD 2.5
INT 1
DET 0.25
Crit 0.09
SPD 0

put that beside the current SMN weights

MD 6.911
INT 1
DET 0.284
Crit 0.232
SPD 0.06

Equalize the pet weights to SMN weights (X 2.7664)
6.911
INT 2.7664
DET 0.6911
Crit - 0.25
SPD - 0

Then equalize the Ratio of Pet/SMN damage (60/40)

MD - 6.911 (both values add to this as they are the same)
INT - 0.6 + 1.1 = 1.7
DET - 0.1704 + 0.27664 = 0.447
Crit - 0.1392 + 0.1 = 0.2392
SPD - 0.036 + 0 = 0.036

Equalized to 1 INT

MD - 4.065
INT - 1
DET - 0.263
Crit - 0.1407
SPD - 0.021

- So by including the pet weights, it actually puts a ridiculous amount of emphasis on INT and DET. Like enough that you would chose body upgrades over a weapon as it only takes 4 INT to equal 1 MD.
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Comparing the Augmented Robe VS Demon Robe you then have AI - 12.8 VS DM -13.8

So really just about a 0.25% difference in favor of the Demon Robe

[SunnyHirose]

That 8 Det = 1 INT calculation is not true. It's more like 3, if even - SMN DoTs (maybe all DoTs?) get affected very strongly by DET to the point where the i110 Book of Spades gives you more DoT damage per tick than i115 HA book, which not only has more INT but 2 more WD (but Ruin/Wind Blade/Fester does more with the HA book).

Some testing I've done on DRG suggests we're undervaluing DET at i130 (and on DRG, severely), but I haven't seen evidence suggesting that DoTs are affected by it any differently from normal potencies.

If there isn't a way for a SMN to plug actual damage-per-potency values into a sim, welp, sounds like someone needs to make one now :P

[Sleigh]

Some testing I've done on DRG suggests we're undervaluing DET at i130 (and on DRG, severely), but I haven't seen evidence suggesting that DoTs are affected by it any differently from normal potencies.

If there isn't a way for a SMN to plug actual damage-per-potency values into a sim, welp, sounds like someone needs to make one now :P

Some testing I did back in i110 gear near the end of 2.3:

i110 book: 575 INT, 75 WD, 284 DET. Bio II ticks: 105 - 116. Bio ticks: 120 - 133. Wind Blade: 257 - 284. Ruin: 240 - 265.
i115 HA book: 578 INT, 77 WD, 253 DET. Bio II ticks: 104 - 115. Bio ticks: 121 - 134. Wind Blade: 259 - 286. Ruin: 241 - 266.

Taking out crits, of course. Numbers were taken by eye, not from any program, for accuracy's sake. Not sure if the results carry over to today's stat values, worth checking out probably for people with more interest in SMN than me.

[Judge_Xero]

Some testing I've done on DRG suggests we're undervaluing DET at i130 (and on DRG, severely), but I haven't seen evidence suggesting that DoTs are affected by it any differently from normal potencies.

If there isn't a way for a SMN to plug actual damage-per-potency values into a sim, welp, sounds like someone needs to make one now :P

I haven't looked at a recent damage algorithm or know if there is one specifically for Dots (maybe there should be?)


But because DET is largely effected by WD/MD I think that the damage vs potency is higher on low potency attacks. Like as if skill potency is a small factor in the DET -> damage factor.

Crude example being

SMN

40, 35, 35 potency (Damage, 140, 125, 125) (DET Contribution to damage, 6, 5, 5) (Total Potency of skills 110 - DET damage 16 (4% Contribution))

BLM
170 Potency (Damage 620) (DET Contribution to damage 11)(Total Potency 170 - DET damage 11 (1.8% Contribution))
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So where you have a class with many low potency attacks (Monk/SMN/BRD) DET makes a larger contribution to damage.
VS Single Large attacks (>150 Potency I'd guess)

Edited: Purely Theoretical

I think what blurs that line is that there are so few Magic classes, so the auto attack damage causes a grey area when making stat weights for melee. AA being a large % of melee damage and having the greatest benefit from DET.

Where a direct comparison would be SMN VS BLM where you can plainly see the difference of the effect on DET when having mainly high vs low potency skills.

Where you have DRG vs MNK - where the weights look very similar even though they have way different styles.

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Of course it could just be as simple as there is a different formula for Dots, or due to the low potency skills having a lower rounding factor/variance.

40 Potency +/- 2 Potency (4 Potency Variance)
35 Potency +/- 1.75 Potency (3.5 Potency Variance)
300 Potency +/- 15 Potency (30 Potency Variance)

Giving the appearance that on average low potency skills have a greater benefit from DET due to rounding/5% damage swings.