Suggested Improvements to Need/Greed/Pass System

[Riviere]

I concur. I don't understand why people keep trying to twist the recommendation into this. I wholeheartedly concur that you should only be entitled to need something if you're playing the right class. What makes me sad is when someone who is the right class wants something for an upgrade but loses the need roll to someone that's already wearing something completely better, that has no intention at all of equipping it.

This isn't what you were saying a couple of pages ago:

Yet you're using a button that is not available to "the rest of the party."

If a button isn't available to the rest of the party, that means nobody else is playing the job that the gear is supposed to be for, so I'm the one who decides what to do with the item, nobody else.

[EveK]

Well, for one, we're talking about a system that applies to a wide variety of circumstances. For the case in point, though, both of those statements you're quoting overlap given that "the rest of the party" was intended to mean (validly) that at least one person in the party does not have it: it does not necessarily mean that it is not available for "the entirety of the rest of the party."

[Riviere]

Well, for one, we're talking about a system that applies to a wide variety of circumstances. For the case in point, though, both of those statements you're quoting overlap given that "the rest of the party" was intended to mean (validly) that at least one person in the party does not have it: it does not necessarily mean that it is not available for "the entirety of the rest of the party."

Then if someone else has the Need button available, just as I do, then we're on equal grounds, now it's up to RNG to decide which one of us gets it.

[Rhais]

I concur. I don't understand why people keep trying to twist the recommendation into this. I wholeheartedly concur that you should only be entitled to need something if you're playing the right class. What makes me sad is when someone who is the right class wants something for an upgrade but loses the need roll to someone that's already wearing something completely better, that has no intention at all of equipping it.

My main point was that it is still very easy to upgrade your gear, even if you have bad luck with RNG. Soldiery gear is as good as or better than any gear drops outside of second and final coil and WoD, and it's not hard to get.

There really is no reason for anyone to get upset if they lose a roll on a dungeon drop if all they want is an ilv increase. There are alternative options for that where RNG isn't a factor, and you are generally getting superior gear to what's available in most dungeons.

However someone wanting gear for glamour has no other options.

[EveK]

My main point was that it is still very easy to upgrade your gear...However someone wanting gear for glamour has no other options.

Your main point is correct but irrelevant. Just because people can survive abuse, it doesn't mean the abuse is appropriate or warranted. Of course we can just do the duty until we get it. And of course we could expedite this by forming a party outside Duty Finder with like-minded individuals. But it's as if some people queue up for Duty Finder thinking "Well, you guys probably aren't even on the same server. So I can be a total jerk to you with impunity."

The glamour point is also good. I definitely agree that someone wanting a piece for glamour should get it over people that want it just for seals.

[Amenian]

With the way the gear system is now, everyone 'needs' everything they can need on. While that i80 piece may not be a direct upgrade, the gear system put in place makes it an indirect upgrade as you need those seals for your upgrade. Don't like it? Address the real problem of gear upgrades being locked behind items only obtainable with seals. The gear system itself is fine.

[EveK]

With the way the gear system is now, everyone 'needs' everything they can need on. While that i80 piece may not be a direct upgrade, the gear system put in place makes it an indirect upgrade as you need those seals for your upgrade. Don't like it? Address the real problem of gear upgrades being locked behind items only obtainable with seals. The gear system itself is fine.

Ironic juxtaposition with your signature about commendations not going to tanks that are inconsiderate of people that are not level synced and may be able to use loot.

[ExKage]

Your main point is correct but irrelevant. Just because people can survive abuse, it doesn't mean the abuse is appropriate or warranted. Of course we can just do the duty until we get it. And of course we could expedite this by forming a party outside Duty Finder with like-minded individuals. But it's as if some people queue up for Duty Finder thinking "Well, you guys probably aren't even on the same server. So I can be a total jerk to you with impunity."

The glamour point is also good. I definitely agree that someone wanting a piece for glamour should get it over people that want it just for seals.

How is rolling on gear you are allowed and perfectly within all rights to get abusive?

[EveK]

That "Need" button is available so that people that would put the gear to better use than others (such as actually using it in battle rather than turning it in for seals, since everyone in the party can turn it in for seals regardless of class). Using it for a reason other than it's intended is misusing it (which is the fundamental definition of abuse).

[Riviere]

How is rolling on gear you are allowed and perfectly within all rights to get abusive?

His logic is that because you may have a piece of loot higher ilvl as the one that dropped, he should be able to roll on everything and have the same chance as the others, even if it's a piece he can't equip. And he's calling us Greedy for opposing.

Goes to show you that Greedy people never seem to realize who the greedy ones truly are.

It reminds me of a Tank who requested a system change to allow tanks to be able to roll Need on any piece of gear, saying that people who farm dungeons for an specific item as something else besides a tank are retarded because tanks get insta queue. I'm detecting some of it here as well.