White Mage vs Scholar - Why is White Mage lacking?

[Noxifer]

I've been reading through this thread (well, skimming the last couple of pages, I admit), but... Hasn't anyone mentioned the stronger Protect that WHM has? That protects against magic damage instead of just physical? And the fact that most, afaik, endgame damage is magic damage?
The stronger Protect and Stoneskin was the main reason I hurried to level up WHM even though I prefer SCH; to have better buffs in 4-man stuff, where I couldn't depend on a fellow healer to do that for me :p

[Cynfael]

I've been reading through this thread (well, skimming the last couple of pages, I admit), but... Hasn't anyone mentioned the stronger Protect that WHM has? That protects against magic damage instead of just physical? And the fact that most, afaik, endgame damage is magic damage?
The stronger Protect and Stoneskin was the main reason I hurried to level up WHM even though I prefer SCH; to have better buffs in 4-man stuff, where I couldn't depend on a fellow healer to do that for me

While those are strengths of WHM, most players take the difference for granted (if they even realize it...).

In 4-man content, no one really cares anyway; Proshell and Granite Skin don't make any difference that a SCH's Galvanize effects can't equal or surpass depending on the situation.

In any case, WHM is still very viable and doing fine.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

I've been reading through this thread (well, skimming the last couple of pages, I admit), but... Hasn't anyone mentioned the stronger Protect that WHM has? That protects against magic damage instead of just physical? And the fact that most, afaik, endgame damage is magic damage?
The stronger Protect and Stoneskin was the main reason I hurried to level up WHM even though I prefer SCH; to have better buffs in 4-man stuff, where I couldn't depend on a fellow healer to do that for me

Actually, most endgame damage is still physical. Even the ones you're expecting the least to be physical: Twintania's fireball and Phoenix's revelation.

[Velox]

If WHM is guilty of anything, it's being an overall bland job.

SCH is a healer, damage dealer, buffer, debuffer, and mitigation job rolled into one.
WHM is a healer, healer, healer, healer, and healer.

SCH has an array of ogcd spells, instant heal, and fairy heals, all of which allows increased versatility, multitasking, and healing-on-the-go.
WHM has heals that all require you to stop and cast, some of which are the longest casts in the game. WHM also doesn't have a mini-healer to help cover for them. WHM suffers the same from high-movements fights as BLM.

Now I play both jobs at endgame so I know each well. When I am on SCH I just feel like I'm bringing much more to my party with my increased toolset. WHM is very limited to what it brings. It's just an overall very bland job. If AST can hold it's own healing and still mesh with SCH, you're going to see people drop WHM until they make the job a little more versatile or interesting (IE, not JUST a healer).

[ZhycranaDranix]

If WHM is guilty of anything, it's being an overall bland job.

SCH is a healer, damage dealer, buffer, debuffer, and mitigation job rolled into one.
WHM is a healer, healer, healer, healer, and healer.

WHM can damage deal ? O.o if you don't stance dance then what are you doing....Aero Is instant cast, and Aero II with POM is always there....
So +18% SS and Magic Def increase isn't a buff ? Didn't know that.....


Leeches=Esuna brah

and Mitigation can be done effectively through SS, my WHM uses it on all the hard hitting moves for help...Critical Rip, Secondary Head, Revelation , and Ak Morn....sooooo ?

I don't see how WHM is bland ? In it's description pretty much it is the main healer in the game as most content you'd either need two OP SCHs or simply a WHM/SCH combo hence the reason why they both are in end game raids.

I've WHM through T13 and I've BLM to T10 and I can assure you they suffer very different fates.......WHM mini healer and on the go heals come from Medica II+ Regen so that easily gives around 700-800 HoT and if its taking you that long to reposition you must learn the fight better. I main SCH so without a doubt I will say its the better overall job imo, but you pretty much said WHM is useless for nothing but heals when in reality there probably much more needed than the SCH. I feared for us when I heard AST was coming out....no one will give up the amazing aoe healing that the WHM brings not including abilities yet to be seen but these ''utilities'' you speak of with SCH can be replaced by better utilities ...SCH and AST will be the fight for the last spot...WHM will have their spot on everytime as a Bard does the pick between SCH and AST will be just as difficult between DRG and MNK in a party with NIN pretty much being universal now.......

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Well, it's really easily explained why some people think White Mage is "bland". But it's more of a player issue rather than the class itself. I'll just quote myself from the second or third page:

Here's some more about the average duty-finder-hero White Mage or never-raided-but-a-soldiery-hero White Mage. Such as followed:


Thing about White Mage is is that you do not learn a thing about healing while leveling from 1-50. Even less if you're one of those FATE-farmers who has never set foot in a dungeon. The average pattern in dungeons is like this:
hur dur idle till someone takes a bit of damage
press button to cure
hur dur idle some more

This is significantly more notable at low level dungeons. From Brayflox on you technically are taught to use Esuna more, but it's still doable without Esuna and still a HP-bar-filling-game and in Cutter's Cry/Sunken Temple you learn how to deal with mechanics as a healer. But this has nothing to do with healing itself in general. In Stone Vigil the mobs hit significantly harder, but that only reduces your idle time and still only involves filling HP bars without any other worries.

Once you hit dungeons such as Darkhold and Aurum Vale, the inability of healers become more transparent. Previous dungeons hasn't taught them anything about MP management and smart-casting (name pending). In lower level dungeons MP was never an issue and even if you heal a full minute late, it won't cause a wipe or anything. Taking previous 44 levels for granted, it leads to a very common thought pattern: "Not my fault". After all, for 44 levels worth everything went fine and you didn't do anything different at all, so it has to be the others, right? This is simply wrong and majority don't even acknowledge their own failure. I would like to dub this The LoL-effect.

The moment you reach level 50, you're being tossed into a lion's pit without being taught anything but filling HP bars. The learning curve for white mage turned from a flat beach to a Normandy invasion scenario. Healing simply became too hard as a white mage because you're always three steps behind and too dull because they're still doing it like they've done from level 1-49.

This would lead to a very common pattern (for white mages):
Divine Seal is never used
Eye for an Eye is never used
Presence of Mind is never used
Shroud of Saints isn't used till very low on MP
Regen/Medica II are up for no reason (no enmity mechanic awareness)
Virus is never used
Fluid Aura is either overused or never used*

With this, almost everything a white mage has to offer with it's skill set is being denied. No wonder it's dull if 80% of their skill set isn't even used properly!

* Fluid Aura is a 150 potency ability for free! Use it wisely as it can cause annoyances on targets that can be knocked away

[Cynfael]

Well, it's really easily explained why some people think White Mage is "bland". But it's more of a player issue rather than the class itself. I'll just quote myself from the second or third page:

I do remember that post from earlier in the thread, and the points were excellent. I strongly feel that this is also why many players claim that WHM can't or shouldn't DPS; they never learned the trick of squeezing in appropriate assistant DPS smoothly with their healing game (much less being proactive about creating their own openings to DPS safely).

SCH has a faster-paced feel that makes WHM sometimes seem slow and methodical by comparison, but there is definitely skill and complexity to the job, and it can be rewarding in its own way. SCH is my preferred job, but I enjoy WHM a lot more now than I did, say, a few months ago when I first hit 50 on it.

[VanilleFang]

The difference between 1-50 and after 50 game play is huge, and I've noticed it a lot on WHM. I noticed massive improvement on my part as I played post-50 content. I improved both with dealing with mechanics and with using my Job much more effectively.

WHM becomes such a different class post 50 it's unreal. I have so much more fun in the high level content then I ever did while leveling. Stringing DPS and healing together and popping CDs... OMG. It's so much fun, and far from bland.

[Staris]

i just think holy should also aoe heal because..... awesome?

[Werhusky]

I started to use WHM after i offered to heal T8 on it (I'm serious on that :P) turned out I overhealed a lot and the sch healed less than his Eos. So I started to use it from time to time then after a few annoying healcaused wipes in T9 offered to swap with the WHM for 1 run... said - done we got lots further - they decided to keep it - I healed more on WHM learned to use and time the cds like SoS, Seal, Presence of Mind (Truly never used it before as i never used WHM).
WHM actually has imo no lack against SCH and I main SCH. I manage to almost put same dps amount as a sch with dots in T9 only with dpsing till first stardust some well timed aero/aero 2/ fluid aura and the stone 2 spikes (according to a parser someone ran).
I agree on sch I can easier cleric stance heal trough content by simply let the fairy spam embrace on tank and put my dots/ruin. But in general both classes need a certain skilllevel to handle em correctly and seriously WHM is more than just heal heal heal...