White Mage vs Scholar - Why is White Mage lacking?

[Parawill]

I just know that if they do indeed make astrologian's healing focused on heal over times, they will have a card or skill that will "ignite them" for a burst heal. The damage flow favors upfront healing rather than heal over times.

And White Mage + Scholar is used over two of the same types in progression raiding is due to the fact that they cover each other's weaknesses. Once it's in farm mode, people may begin to min-max, and will usually remove the White Mage as their raw healing power isn't needed as much. Turn 10 and Turn 11 have already been solo healed by Scholars, so this min-maxing pattern generally says Scholar > White Mage AFTER the entire group is familiar with the fight. That means no unnecessary damage, and only minimal healing is required as no one dying or falling below x heath a second before the next mechanic/raid-wide hit.

[sharazisspecial]

Hopefully AST its not HOT based because HOTS are really bad in this game. Thats if their hots work like whm hots.
Hots get too much aggro meaning you can barely use them at the start of the fight or if there are adds popping in fights (nearly every fight has adds), the hots tick for pitiful amounts. Preventing dmg or timing a heal will always be better then relying on hots.

[sharazisspecial]

@Sharazisspecial

May I request what new skills does 3.0 bring to the table?
Since you're pretty damned sure AST will be getting a Shell-Type Buff to go with Scholar's Protect-Type Buff, I can only assume you're a Time Traveler or a SE Employee .

P/S : Personally I THINK AST may get a Shell-Type Buff, but Sharazisspecial said so with such authority ("Most serious healers bla bla bla....") I can't help but assume he knows what's going down in 3.0 :P

Ok SE may surprise me and make AST terrible(e.g hot based healer) or they could give WHM some strong 50-60 skills which guarantees them a spot.
But looking at Ninja, i think they will overload AST with utility.
Also instead of magic defense AST could have a max hp buff for everyone.

[DreamWeaver]

@Parawill

Please note that "able to solo heal" and "min-maxing" are not always inter-related.

Maybe bringing 2 healers will end up having even more dps overall? Things that can be done to increase dps with 2 healers:

1) Selene.
2) SCH 100% dps uptime, fairy assist WHM.
3) Tanks can afford to go even more offensive.
4) Melee can choose to eat certain AoE to maximise dem deeps.

If you were to bring 1 healer only, most likely the above points cannot be achieved, so you're trading the above points for an additional DPS.
Which composition will yield more dps? who knows, and that is the point I am trying to bring, when you're trying to down a current end game boss with minimal amount of time (aka min-maxing), things aren't as straightforward as changing 1 healer to 1 dps.

[rawker]

I just want to give my 2 cents regarding what AST would offer... I have this huge feeling that with these cards, they will play like how SCHs were in FFXI - they will have all skills given to them but are below the norms and will be powered up by those cards.

Now getting back to the real topic, I agree with the statement that both jobs cover each others' weaknesses and that in a min-maxing scenario, a SCH will be more suited as the main focus of WHM healing is burst which is really not that much needed if everyone in the party knows the fight very well. Although giving much thought, it is a bit flawed since by then, the WHM can just sit in CS much longer and do more dps with Stone II than let's say a SCH reapplying DoTs every now and then. This gap is even more accentuated in the presence of BRDs.

[firstsin]

Guys every turn that can be solo healed by SCH can also be solo healed by WHM. Only difference is that the WHM MUST know the fight inside out to be able to cast SS back to back. There are rarely any scenarios where lustrate is a must. Or Succor/Adlo us necessary. SS + precasting cure/cure2 does the job.

[Parawill]

@Parawill
Please note that "able to solo heal" and "min-maxing" are not always inter-related.

Maybe bringing 2 healers will end up having even more dps overall? Things that can be done to increase dps with 2 healers:

1) Selene.
2) SCH 100% dps uptime, fairy assist WHM.
3) Tanks can afford to go even more offensive.
4) Melee can choose to eat certain AoE to maximise dem deeps.

If you were to bring 1 healer only, most likely the above points cannot be achieved, so you're trading the above points for an additional DPS.
Which composition will yield more dps? who knows, and that is the point I am trying to bring, when you're trying to down a current end game boss with minimal amount of time (aka min-maxing), things aren't as straightforward as changing 1 healer to 1 dps.

Note taken Was focused on min-maxing that I totally forgot other scenarios (like Scholar on DPS only). And yes, though White Mages -can- solo heal fights, the mere fact that Scholars can bring other things aside from just heals is what I'm trying to point out. Like sharazisspecial has stated, where a White Mage brings only raw healing power (and occasional DPS ala Fluid Aura, Aero, etc.), a Scholar will be bringing more than that.

This is why Scholars will always > White Mage in that setting. You get more out of that one healer role than the other.

[firstsin]

Note taken Was focused on min-maxing that I totally forgot other scenarios (like Scholar on DPS only). And yes, though White Mages -can- solo heal fights, the mere fact that Scholars can bring other things aside from just heals is what I'm trying to point out. Like sharazisspecial has stated, where a White Mage brings only raw healing power (and occasional DPS ala Fluid Aura, Aero, etc.), a Scholar will be bringing more than that.

This is why Scholars will always > White Mage in that setting. You get more out of that one healer role than the other.

I have only seen SCH go full DPS when they are in a party with people who are over geared for said fight.

If a scholar is to go full dps in FCoB with a party that is i110/120 gear you'll be shouting at the SCH to stick to healing as they will not be able to keep everyone healed.

Also to add WHM are a beast in speedruns and a skilled WHM can stance dance to DPS and heal effectively.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Not to mention: Full DPS scholar? Really? Might as well just bring another DPS class. A fully geared, accuracy melded scholar contributes maybe 300-350 DPS when they're permanently in cleric's stance. If you bring in another monk or dragoon, they'll do 500-550 or perhaps more. This is a 200-250 DPS difference which just having selene around cannot bridge. This approach is in the same category as solo tanking rather than bringing two tanks.

[Zedd702]

I have only seen SCH go full DPS when they are in a party with people who are over geared for said fight.

If a scholar is to go full dps in FCoB with a party that is i110/120 gear you'll be shouting at the SCH to stick to healing as they will not be able to keep everyone healed.

Also to add WHM are a beast in speedruns and a skilled WHM can stance dance to DPS and heal effectively.

^This x 150%