We have finally come full circle, SMN's need help!

[Crevox]

Fcoil is doable as SMN but often times I think myself "This part would be 100x easier as blm". Just the MP part is annoying, having to rely on bard playing Ballad "for me", when I know as BLM he could be playing Foe's instead. Battle ress on paper looks nice, but as there are these mp issues, its not really ideal and SCH has supervirus as well, BLM would have eye for an eye, plus Apoc + Manawall + Manaward.

BLM may be easier, I dunno. I enjoy SMN, so I play SMN. I do good DPS, so it works. And NO never make your Bard play ballad for you. No, no, no.

Battle res is a fun toy, but you shouldn't ever need to use it.

[mvenom]

BLM may be easier, I dunno. I enjoy SMN, so I play SMN. I do good DPS, so it works. And NO never make your Bard play ballad for you. No, no, no.

Battle res is a fun toy, but you shouldn't ever need to use it.

Thats the reason why I play SMN still as well. Just wish pets werent that derp and Mp wasnt such an issue, but what can you do.

[Atomnium]

blarg

I really love how you just trashed the whole point of this thread without even sharing detailed informations or arguing about the dozen of replies, numbers and reasons why people are actually complaining xD.
Here is the typical example of babysat smn by a very good static. I'm totally envious, I won't lie and you are probably a good smn too but you, good sir, just came here to spit your contempt over people in this thread ! And I'm myself very arrogant close to smelly minded most of the time O.O; But you won the game there.

Some runs I don't have BRD, but when we do, he uses Foe and Paeon as needed. I also usually run with a BLM.

Which turns on you don't have a BRD? "Usually" :x Do you always play with a BLM mate or not? BLM for t13 can be a serious bonus to say the least.

On a side note, I won't complain about my dps as smn because there is no need to but I feel a bit weird that you never ever encountered any issues with your mps during fcob !? What is your secret ? Do you use mp potions over x-pot (would be lolz).

Or maybe they do not take serious anymore these SMN treads because there was loads of those even before 2.4. Loads of complains how summoner should be like ffxi summoner and how summoner should be pet job and not dot job. Loads of complains how SCH and SMN should split from each others. SMN was probably one of the strongest dps class in t9 before and we had book of spades with bis stats and ppl still complain.

It may be a thing but I hardly doubt that the community staff and devs are that dumb when it come to an objective opinion about their creations, look at this thread many feedbacks from players with a lot of constructive replies for almost 80 likes on OP (It's a lot for an English thread).

To me, they just gave up on testing things with SMN and mainly because they created a "monster" that is able to handle way more stuffs than other jobs.

When you look at past nerfs and emergency fixes, it's almost always because the arcanist/smn (played by us) broke something or made their new contents not working as intended :
- Remember Ramuh extreme? Solo tanking it as smn for a week with titan-egi, best experience in my ffxiv life.
- More recently, turn 12 and blackfires before the nerf : people were able to crazy improve their dps by using overpowered banes from debuffed blackfires during p1 and so... only getting 4 bennus with 110 gears.

There is also a small flaw in Shiva Hard / Ex modes, 4 adds and Shiva, our bane from Shiva only touch 3 of them :3. I'm pretty sure to not be the only one frustrated by this xD.
On a side note, playing double sch for fcob can be a dangerous and tricky choice because of all heavy magical aoe damages you will eat without whm base protect.

If you add those things above to poor itemization we have and mp limits on the most hardcore contents ingame, it seems logical to assume that they don't design their contents while having the arcanist(mostly smn) factor in mind.

[Crevox]

I really love how you just trashed the whole point of this thread without even sharing detailed informations or arguing about the dozen of replies, numbers and reasons why people are actually complaining xD.
Here is the typical example of babysat smn by a very good static. I'm totally envious, I won't lie and you are probably a good smn too but you, good sir, just came here to spit your contempt over people in this thread ! And I'm myself very arrogant close to smelly minded most of the time O.O; But you won the game there.

I am trying to understand why people are saying SMN is bad. People are saying "omg I had to swtich to MNK for final coil we just suck so hard" but it's just not true. The three main points complained about in the opening post are mana management, accuracy, and itemization.

Yes, we need more accuracy than BLM, who cares. Adjust your gear.

Yes, our itemization is kinda poor this patch, but we can still do just fine on DPS and work with what we've got. It won't always be that way, and my DPS is still just fine.

Yes, our MP can be a bit painful on certain fights, but Summoner has the power to control their mana flow and adjust based on how much they need and how much DPS they want to push out. You can manage and get a minimum number of energy drains. It's not like your rotation just stops; yes, you CAN energy drain in the case that you run out of mana, and while it's a DPS loss, it's also a penalty for being too greedy with your mana. In the majority of fights you can get away with not using energy drain. Even if you do energy drain, it's not the end of the world, and it can be a worthwhile tradeoff for being able to DoT cleave. You should be able to balance your MP and have a good idea of what's worth casting, what's not worth casting, and how much DPS you can squeeze out. This is part of the fun of Summoner, optimizing DPS for every encounter and mana usage.

Which turns on you don't have a BRD? "Usually" :x Do you always play with a BLM mate or not? BLM for t13 can be a serious bonus to say the least.

Some weeks we bring a BRD for all of them, some weeks we don't bring a BRD for any of them. I've gone both ways, and I've always had a BLM with us. Why would having a BLM boost a SMN's DPS? You might say they Foe more often I guess? But that's not true, because there are times when melee need TP, and there are times when they don't (Foe time).

In the end, I am just baffled why this topic exists. SMN does just fine in all content currently available, with some minor points on a couple fights (T8, T11), but all jobs have something like that.

[Eisen-Zorn]

I haven't used my SMN since I ran Sastasha Hard and we couldn't even pass the DPS check on the second boss with a WAR, a NIN, and a WHM. I had i110 and i120 gear and I still had the worst output of the group. We quit the roulette, I started a Bard and I haven't switched to use my SMN for anything since.

[Crevox]

I haven't used my SMN since I ran Sastasha Hard and we couldn't even pass the DPS check on the second boss with a WAR, a NIN, and a WHM. I had i110 and i120 gear and I still had the worst output of the group. We quit the roulette, I started a Bard and I haven't switched to use my SMN for anything since.

So instead of trying to learn how to get better you just gave up? You just automatically assume "it's because SMN is a bad job?"

Does this topic truly exist because people can't figure out how to play SMN properly and thus just assume it's terrible and ask for buffs? I mean, no offense, but come on, that's just lame.

[Eisen-Zorn]

Assumption: That I don't know how to play SMN "properly".

I've used SMN since ARR was released, and this wasn't just some kind of "well, it was awful once, so I'm done." type of scenarios. No, this was after a long series of events where, patch after patch, I watched my favorite class get passed over and nerfed over and over again.

This was the proverbial "straw", as they say.

[Atomnium]

Yes, we need more accuracy than BLM, who cares. Adjust your gear.

Yes, our itemization is kinda poor this patch, but we can still do just fine on DPS and work with what we've got. It won't always be that way, and my DPS is still just fine.

Yes, our MP can be a bit painful on certain fights

Hold on a second, basically you are actually agreeing on people complains BUT it is something you actually enjoy and so, everyone else have to shut their voices?
No offence but not everyone are masochists and while I respect your tastes when it come to the "pleasure" point of view, it is not the case for everyone you know.

yes, you CAN energy drain in the case that you run out of mana, and while it's a DPS loss, it's also a penalty for being too greedy with your mana.

So, there again, using energy drain over fester is a "deserved punishment" for you even though the dps loss is kind of unfair when you are directly in competition for tight dps check fights :/
Where you see being greedy with mana, I just see DPS optimization to be honest.

Why would having a BLM boost a SMN's DPS? You might say they Foe more often I guess?.

It wouldn't :P Think again! I was more likely talking in a general way, having a BLM for adds phase will make your life as smn more "easier" but again it's a matter of subjective point of view and it dramatically depend of different party setups etc.
As an example let's try to imagine yourself a long long time back in the past with turn 4, as smn, alone as caster (so no blm) with a setup like brd/drg/smn/mnk and I70-I80 stuffs ^.^ Not saying it's impossible, just more challenging.

[Osmond]

I still enjoy SMN til this day, but I really want SE to buff some of their abilities especially those that isn't useful at at like Tri-disaster for one. For the mana issues, the only 2 things I can think of that could make it easier for the job in FCoB for example if they increase the Aetherflow % from 20 to either 30 or 40 or buff energy drain potency from 150 to 300. Im still thinking on how to buff SMN cause I haven't heard them even trying to make it feel some relief to players.

[Gallus]

The only problem about SMN is that it's by far the hardest job to play and 95% playing this game are horrendously bad, thus everybody complaining about SMN. Get some Piety to your relic, use Pineapple juice...and bam...mana problems are no longer an issue, but no, better spend 10 million gil in 30 useless points of determination/crit that will boost your dmg by an astonishing...1%, while your BRD loses 20% of it because they have to sing ballad for you.

No wonder SE doesn't want parsers in this game, it would only reflect the incompetence of 95% of the player database.