Are we really the good guys?

[kyuven]

Besides, if we wanna be true FF heroes, we should be silent, slightly effeminate and moody.

Only if we want to be main male protagonists.
Women should be talkative and troubled by family issues. Also, smiles are mandatory.
...seriously name one female character that doesn't fall into that.

[Freyt]

Only if we want to be main male protagonists.
Women should be talkative and troubled by family issues. Also, smiles are mandatory.
...seriously name one female character that doesn't fall into that.

Terra Celes Tifa Quistis Freya Lulu Ashe.

[Violyre]

Terra Celes Tifa Quistis Freya Lulu Ashe.

Lightning. While there is the family issues, she has a distinct lack of mandatory smiles.

[kyuven]

Terra Celes Tifa Quistis Freya Lulu Ashe.

Terra's dad in the first half, her "kids" in the second. Her smiles are plot relevant. And she does talk.
Celes' "grandfather" is a plot point. Same as terra in other regards. Being a focal character means your voice is heard a lot. Plus you don't get to be a General by being quiet.
Tifa is ALL grins and very talkative, her "family" is Avalanche AND she lost a parent in the Nibelheim event.
Quistis is an orphan just like the other main characters, which is definitely a family issue since that fact is plot relevant. And she does smile, and she's a TEACHER, so she talks VERY often.
Freya has Sir Fratley, and again her smiles are relevant. She's the least talkative, I'll grant you, but she's not on the level of Squall or Cloud.
Lulu is Queen Expodump for a lot of things so yeah she's definitely talkative. Her "family" is her little summoner clique to the point of marrying and getting impregnated by Wakka. She does smile the least I'll grant you.
Ashe's family issues...she's royalty, and the story begins and is predicated on her wedding. Also talkative as a resistance leader and one of the actual main characters of the story. One of her first promo pictures is her with a big ol' grin.

Lightning. While there is the family issues, she has a distinct lack of mandatory smiles.

She doesn't smile as much, but again the times she does are relevant.

There's really two types of female characters: Those that are smiling ALL the time (Rikku, Rinoa, Selphie, Aerith, Yuffie) and those whose smiles are plot relevant (all of the above).
But still at some point they must smile and it is relevant.
Though lightning IS the biggest departure from the standard archetype as she's less talkative and less smile-y than other female protagonists...but when you realize her ENTIRE motivation is her sister...

[ChazNatlo]

OBJECTION!

I'd toss in Faris (Legacy is a big deal in V. EVERYONE has family issues, so I can overlook that) and Agrias, but really, bar the scenes where they make sure to let us know/remind us that Faris is a woman, both of them are basically written in the "Write a man>change the gender>strong female" writing style, so I'd see how well they match up to the description of a male FF character. That said, either description really only applies best to The duteroganist couple. Cid Highwind certainly doesn't count as quiet and effeminate looking.

Oh, and as an aside, When I'm beig the worst of the worst in those Western MMOs while in character, shooting random passerby NPCs, murdering the innocents because I wasn't being paid not to, and the like, I do try to still be polite and curteous to my fellow PCs, unless we are specifically RPing. Run by someone biting off morr than they can swallow, toss out a heal, add a little damage if the combat rewards system allows it and it isn't kill stealing. With any luck they will remember that act of charity and pass it along to the next person. Maybe one day someome will step in to help me.

[kyuven]

Words.

Exactly. Which is another reason 13 is a little odd. Lightning's gender is mostly inconsequential to the plot (of the first game at least) and the role normally given to characters like Rinoa, Tifa, Aerith, etc. is instead given to a character that never fights in the first game and in fact spends the vast majority of it as a statue. Her relationship with Sera is important, but it feels more like she's Sera's sibling, rather than sister.
It's a good and bad thing, and given FFXV is going to have zero playable female characters...maybe it was a bad sign, or the writers just didn't get it...
I know as someone who's a fan of strong female characters in video games, FFXV isn't looking all that appealing to me. Four bros on a road trip and all that.

[Ceodore]

Exactly. Which is another reason 13 is a little odd. Lightning's gender is mostly inconsequential to the plot (of the first game at least) and the role normally given to characters like Rinoa, Tifa, Aerith, etc. is instead given to a character that never fights in the first game and in fact spends the vast majority of it as a statue. Her relationship with Sera is important, but it feels more like she's Sera's sibling, rather than sister.
It's a good and bad thing, and given FFXV is going to have zero playable female characters...maybe it was a bad sign, or the writers just didn't get it...
I know as someone who's a fan of strong female characters in video games, FFXV isn't looking all that appealing to me. Four bros on a road trip and all that.

Maybe yaoi? I can get into that, even if they are brothers.

[Almalexia]

Women aren't allowed to have families, tongues with which to talk or lips with which to smile

What kind of torture dungeon are you running?

[ChazNatlo]

What kind of torture dungeon are you running?

Context. kyuven was replying to a post about how all those characters were examples of Female heroes in Final Fantasy that didn't have family as an important trait, spoke plenty, and didn't smile.

But we may be digressing from the topic.

[Freyt]

Terra's dad in the first half, her "kids" in the second. Her smiles are plot relevant. And she does talk.
Celes' "grandfather" is a plot point. Same as terra in other regards. Being a focal character means your voice is heard a lot. Plus you don't get to be a General by being quiet.
Tifa is ALL grins and very talkative, her "family" is Avalanche AND she lost a parent in the Nibelheim event.
Quistis is an orphan just like the other main characters, which is definitely a family issue since that fact is plot relevant. And she does smile, and she's a TEACHER, so she talks VERY often.
Freya has Sir Fratley, and again her smiles are relevant. She's the least talkative, I'll grant you, but she's not on the level of Squall or Cloud.Lulu is Queen Expodump for a lot of things so yeah she's definitely talkative. Her "family" is her little summoner clique to the point of marrying and getting impregnated by Wakka. She does smile the least I'll grant you.
Ashe's family issues...she's royalty, and the story begins and is predicated on her wedding. Also talkative as a resistance leader and one of the actual main characters of the story. One of her first promo pictures is her with a big ol' grin.

I'll give you Ashe. Freya isn't related to Fratley and he certainly isn't family. He's a boyfriend. Lulu is somewhat talkative but not because she chooses to be, but because she feels the need to inform the fools around her before they go and ruin everything she's worked for. Tifa's family being Avalanche is semantics on your original argument and so I can't recognize that seriously. She has SOME fun, but Aeris smiles more and Yuffie is the fun one. Tifa isn't a buzz kill but she hardly contributes to most of the actionable dialogue.

And Quistis I'm just going to have to flat out deny your reasoning. The furthest back you see in any flash backs, Quistis is an orphan, meaning her family doesn't exist in FF8. In fact the only one of the orphan's who has family that exists is Squall. She smiles, but it's not as if smiling once or twice is fuel for your argument, you were talking about characters like Vanille who are all smiles. And as for her talking a lot, she talks in class, because it's her job. Beyond that she's very quiet, and the game makes this a point during your rendezvous with her in the training grounds. In fact this is when she tells you that she was fired from her job which is why she became a member of SeeD in the first place, because she lacked leadership qualities. She was only a teacher for a year, and felt she couldn't connect with her students at all.

And then the game forgets Quistis most of the time. Her smile doesn't become some sort of plot point. All of her laughs feel somewhat forced, like she's trying to live through her problems.


To be honest I've not played much of 6. I mentioned those characters based on all I've seen from 6 and other things, so I have no right to argue them.