Yoshida did not make this game pay-to-win. The players did. *NOT a cash shop thread*

[Bishop81]

Pretty sure that's personal objective, also pretty sure it is not Pay-2-Win. Like in many other threads, it has been stated it's just extra fluff/optional vanities. People need to stop making a mountain out of a molehill.

And we are back to this line of argument ... LOL

Everything in this game is a "personal objective". You don't have to get that Shiva iLv 115 weapon. So ... it's OK to sell it on the cash shop?

[FateAudax]

And we are back to this line of argument ... LOL

Everything in this game is a "personal objective". You don't have to get that Shiva iLv 115 weapon. So ... it's OK to sell it on the cash shop?

And also the same argument by cash-shop haters and also applying the same tactic of making a mountain out of a molehill. Is any weapon being sold in the cash shop? Any items which gives players stats at all? Any extra movespeed? You cash shop haters are just abusing the word objective just because you are not willing to shell out that bit of cash to get some fluff which you want that is behind the cash shop.

Seriously, is any dungeon gated by cash shop? Any weapons or gears with stats? They selling diamond dust/UAT/Sand/Oil? All these posts and threads makes it like you want that mount, minion and dyes so darn badly.

[Bishop81]

And also the same argument by cash-shop haters and also applying the same tactic of making a mountain out of a molehill. Is any weapon being sold in the cash shop? Any items which gives players stats at all? Any extra movespeed? You cash shop haters are just abusing the word objective just because you are not willing to shell out that bit of cash to get some fluff which you want that is behind the cash shop.

Seriously, is any dungeon gated by cash shop? Any weapons or gears with stats? They selling diamond dust/UAT/Sand/Oil? All these posts and threads makes it like you want that mount, minion and dyes so darn badly.

Let's get this straight. You are OK with selling of weapons in the cash shop? Because by your line of argument, this is perfectly acceptable.

True they have not done so. But you are OK with it if they did? Yes?

[Avin00]

Me and my Fc Dango Daikazoku have always stood against this particular activity by some FC's on Pheonix. When Titan clear were big just to annoy some of the other big FC's and to cut into their profits we would "sell" clears for 1 gil. We never asked a player to walk into a wall and would explain the fight as best we could. We still do these kinds of runs but no where near as frequent, most of us just don't have the same amount time. However come to Pheonix join Dango if you find this behaviour abhorant and we'll run more like it and show the community how to be good people instead of money grubbing ass holes.

[FateAudax]

Let's get this straight. You are OK with selling of weapons in the cash shop? Because by your line of argument, this is perfectly acceptable.

True they have not done so. But you are OK with it if they did? Yes?

Seems like you have an uncanny interest to derail topics by means of exaggeration. Please re-read my post which you have quoted and find exactly which part of my argument which says it's perfectly acceptable. Should be easy to find right? since you're so sure that according to my argument, it's perfectly acceptable.

[warren-ragnarok]

Aren't such groups only really around because the developers insisted on a simplistic system for just about everything?

Since beta I've seen hundreds of threads asking for more complexity in class and fight mechanics, and they always get met with the same "That would be too complex for players" style of response. Honestly, when you make a game with very little complexity, it's just begging for people to be carried through it. I think the root of the problem is the developers "Let everyone reach max level really easily" mentality. When you can reach Coil by doing nothing but spamming AoE in FATEs of course you're going to have people who can barely function in endgame content and then look to buy wins...

sadly, its not just the simplicity, its also the fact most people cannot play the game reliably with their connection/pc for one reason or another (no, i do not intend to discuss this topic at length) and this causes them unable to do certain content normally. part of it is SEs fault for making it very connection based. i also want to take a second to blame the community, very few people are willing to join training parties and help people get past content, and once the content becomes dated, well we all know what that means for newer players.

[AdamFyi]

I don't like these topics, but after reading through, I feel like I have to ask. If the player makes it their primary objective to collect every single minion in the game, why would they care about other peoples objectives? Don't get me wrong, I'm merely curious. If winning the game differs from player to player, why call it pay-to-win when the objectives of the game are different between players?

Is the definition of pay-to-win actually means that it is something you cannot earn yourself, does it stand for other players progressing into something you don't care about, or is it defined as something to which you are forced into using real money? Because, in my point of view, pay-to-win is something you are forced into doing to get the best enjoyment out of it. If you can't enjoy the game without needing to rely, complain, or acknowledge the existence of the Cash Shop, then what's the point of playing?

[FateAudax]

snip-

So by your point of argument, everything should be made available for free? Just because your term of "winning" is collecting stuff?" Isn't that entitlement? "Oh, something I like is in the cash shop. I better pull out my "terms" of "winning" so I can convince that it should be made free.

[Bishop81]

Seems like you have an uncanny interest to derail topics by means of exaggeration. Please re-read my post which you have quoted and find exactly which part of my argument which says it's perfectly acceptable. Should be easy to find right? since you're so sure that according to my argument, it's perfectly acceptable.

Let's recap your argument,

You claim that the stuff in the cash shop is "OK" because it's "fluff personal objectives". I argued that everything in this game is technically "fluff personal objectives" and gave an example of a Shiva weapon, which you don't really need to have, and asked if it's OK for that to be in the cash shop.

You then went off on a tangent asking rhetorical questions such as "Are they selling weapons now?" which is beside the point. ("uncanny interest to derail topics" heh. Talk about pot calling kettle black. )

You have yet to directly answer my question, "Is it acceptable to sell an iLv 115 Shiva weapon on the cash shop?".

By simple logical extrapolation of your past lines of argument, the answer is "yes" - it is after all a "fluff personal objective". But since you claim otherwise, do tell, "Why not?". It is after all "optional fluff".

So lets stop beating around the bush. Is it or is it not OK to sell an iLV 115 Shiva weapon on the cash shop? Yes or no? If no, why not?

[HeroSamson]

Why do you all keep bringing up paying Gil to get through the game to pay to win.
This has been going on since FFXI people do mercenary work and help you through the fight.

I have never done it but it did not effect FFXI in any shape or form and it wont effect this game.
Sure they are Lazy they are the same players who use game shark and cheats in real life cause game is too hard.

Though its not hurting you, you still play the game and the chances of you bumping into those people are very very slim.
So basically when you ask for a craft to be done and you are paying them for their services its the same thing because they are too lazy to craft but again has nothing to do with you.

It went from complaining about cash shop to this?

Even other games do it not just this one.