FFXIV - A Step to P2W (My 2.45 Feedback)

[Taliph]

I'm not sure what your experience level in crafting is, but unless they have truly unlimited funding, an couple million gil will get you nowhere close to 4 star stats in crafting. hell, I've blown through 50 mil, and am still nowhere close.

Also, macro crafts will only get you so far. We do not yet have a macro for 4 star crafts. and 3 star is still very iffy.

Unspoiled node gathering, 99% isn't limited by stats. you can get the stats easy. remembering to be in the right place to gather at the right time, to get the items you need for progression at a low RNG chance, that's more than half of it, and all the gil in the world wont buy that.

Remember, the primary tokens for progression in both crafting and gathering are untradeable. you can buy the mats for them, but you still need skill to HQ them.

essentially, you can only get so far, even in crafting and gathering, with 5, 10, 15, 20 mil gil. and I seriously doubt that someone is spending four to five hundred dollars on this game, just to buy marriage bracelets, in hopes of finding 10-15 people who have 5 million to spend this way.

My experience is quite extensive, most of my crafting and gathering jobs are at what was best in slot pre-2.4, I have taken a break to focus on a few things other then crafting and gathering since 2.4 hit.

Melded crafting and gathering BiS cost about 12-15 mil fully melded on my server, a couple of EB band sales away (current pfs are posting around 10 mil for a plat bracelet)

With the exception of the new mastercraft books, the tokens all have macros to get 90-100% hq, no skill involved.

I will concede on your point as far as the new mastercraft books, but not about getting the stats to obtain them.

As far as gathering, the unspoiled nodes for "endgame" tokens and the 2.4 mats require nearly BiS.

Seeing as my points are FACTS, please provide evidence to disprove them as such.

[HeroSamson]

please provide evidence to disprove them as such.

Please provide evidence that people are Paying to win anything in the game.

You bring up carries? I believe people been doing this since beginning of the game, putting prices up in PF and shouting prices, Do you honestly think everyone is broke?
You know how easy it is to make Gil in this game? Even without the cash shop all that stuff you and everyone excuses has been going on.

Example a Guy decides he doesn't want to use RL money to get a bracelet his character has 10 million Gil and another player buys the item off the Cash shop and sells it to that guy and this guy also has 10million Gil already whats stopping that guy from doing all the crap you just said a long time ago before the cash shop existed I mean he already has 10million Gil even if he doubles it doesn't matter right.


You talking about new players, Really lets see get to 50, run few sycus tower runs get all my level 1 jobs all the gear doesn't mean diddly squat if I cannot play for crap.

People buying stuff in market board failing weapon IV materias wasting millions of gil getting crafting up wasting all the gil to get crafting armor and materia for what more gil, doesn't mean he can progress in the game unless he pays for carries but as I said its existed before cash shop did and people still pay for carries.

Something tells me this is about something else you guys making no sense at all.

[Taliph]

Please provide evidence that people are Paying to win anything in the game.

You bring up carries? I believe people been doing this since beginning of the game, putting prices up in PF and shouting prices, Do you honestly think everyone is broke?
You know how easy it is to make Gil in this game? Even without the cash shop all that stuff you and everyone excuses has been going on.

Example a Guy decides he doesn't want to use RL money to get a bracelet his character has 10 million Gil and another player buys the item off the Cash shop and sells it to that guy and this guy also has 10million Gil already whats stopping that guy from doing all the crap you just said a long time ago before the cash shop existed I mean he already has 10million Gil even if he doubles it doesn't matter right.


You talking about new players, Really lets see get to 50, run few sycus tower runs get all my level 1 jobs all the gear doesn't mean diddly squat if I cannot play for crap.

People buying stuff in market board failing weapon IV materias wasting millions of gil getting crafting up wasting all the gil to get crafting armor and materia for what more gil, doesn't mean he can progress in the game unless he pays for carries but as I said its existed before cash shop did and people still pay for carries.

Something tells me this is about something else you guys making no sense at all.

In your example, guy b paid real life cash for an item, he then traded that item for Gil. Guy b wants to be an endgame gatherer, uses said Gil to buy foragers gear, and the demimateria for supra tool. Guy b has skipped nearly the entire gearing process.

This is pay to win (at gathering)

It cannot be spelled out more simply then this.

You attempt to point out "Gil is available by ingame means" but that has nothing to do with the issue, the issue is that with the system in its current state, SE has broken yoshi's promise about "no pay to win"

I have other issues with the cash shop in general but I have kept my posts in this topic solely about pay to win.

[Cousinjimmy]

On Hyperion, it just happens that some people came over from 1.0 with 50+ stacks of Cracked Materia IVs. Det and crit IVs sells for 0.6 mil a pop atm, you do the math.

Week after week I see people buying useless junk for 10m+ at a time -- people that never sold runs, never sold materia, never crafted. Fresh 50s spending 10m on HQ mats then there's three NQ body armor on the MB under their name.

Fcob atm goes for 400 mil by one group; T13 wins are selling for 100-130m; all loot included of course. P2W is alive and well, just take a dip into that good stuff and you can gloat in your fresh dreadwyrm gears afking in Mor Dhona.

[HeroSamson]

Listen man they can do that with next to no gil at all

Basically I leveled one job to 50, got my gear for other jobs without having to level up a single job and I find it too easy.

I mean come on Ninja most people had monk gear already finished and done. No effort

Is this what you mean? Cause if so a bit late on that reaction I said this about a few months back made a post and was severely attacked for it.

Cause it can be done without cash shop you don't need Gil to do this stuff just takes a good player.

[Taliph]

Listen man they can do that with next to no gil at all

Basically I leveled one job to 50, got my gear for other jobs without having to level up a single job and I find it too easy.

I mean come on Ninja most people had monk gear already finished and done. No effort

Is this what you mean? Cause if so a bit late on that reaction I said this about a few months back made a post and was severely attacked for it.

Cause it can be done without cash shop you don't need Gil to do this stuff just takes a good player.

The fact that it can be done with the cash shop is the issue.

[Adrian74]

I simply can't understand why some people says "you can't clear t13 with gil or gear, so it is not p2w" .... So?... Is it t13 everything in the game? What about the effor of people crafting those hq gear? What about the effort of the others? What about the new relic and the 3star craft stuff required? What about novus and the million gils you need for materia? Is not P2W to obtain gil from **** and use it for that ?

It is equal to let's say you can level up to level 85 in the game with real money, but "Hey, it's not P2W, you can't level from 85 to 90 with money, you have to do it yourself"

So, it is perfectly ok if one player has to level all the way to 85 while other just pays it? It is not pay to win? It doesn't allow people to bypass the efforts of others just paying with real money?

It should also be good to remember that only a 5-10% of the players do super mega raids and cool stuff.. The others still suffering if, let's say, their maximum level is 85 and now people can reach them just by paying.


Please...Read.... Feel... Think ?

[AdamFyi]

Snip

You do realise that the people who crafted those HQ crafted i110 armor are making a crap ton of profit from people rapidly buying out their stocks. Their efforts did not go to waste as their intentions was to make a profit selling the gear in the first place. The same can be said about buying the relic items and materia from the market board directly. The people selling those relic items and materia for the new relic quests and previous steps want to make a profit.

In other news, there was an official statement that SE does not wish for players to continue selling the Bracelets for Gil. They have not mentioned anything other than that, but they said they may be looking into it.

[Evenstar]

Player A: Had to start from 0 with his DoH/DoL gear. Get the BiS every patch, make gil on the way, farm a lot, grind a lot, get better gear every patch and so on. Lots of time involved and lots of effort involved. Since 2.4 he had to work hard to get Forager gear, which is costly and time consuming.

Player B: Has lv 50 DoH/DoL with random gear, nowhere close to being BiS since he is too lazy or too poor. Buys a bracelet in Mog Station, sells it to someone for X million. Runs to the market boards, buys Foragers gear. There it is, as much progress as someone that worked for BiS gear since 2.0 in just 10 minutes.

How is this hard to understand and how is this not P2W?

[Adrian74]

But what about the others? The ones without crafters that have almost no gil because they don't craft neither buy it with real money?

I know what SE stated already, let's hope for them to treat this careful with the emergency it needs. People won't stop selling just because a message in a forum says it (That not everyone reads, and, even if readed, it's not a coercitive rule, it's imperfect, optional, you can choose follow it or not to follow it because there won't be any action taken against you if you don't)