Frontline PvP: Tips for Dragoons

[Cidolfas86]

Do you have any advice for dealing with Ninja's/Bards? Seems to be my biggest problem at the moment. I can't find a decent away to deal with Ninjutsu and if my Stuns are down I'm basically boned.

I'm having a similar problem with Bards. If I don't have Weapon Throw up I'm screwed half the time. Piercing Talon doesn't feel like enough to deal with them.

[Gryzz]

Since they changed Damage Dealt/Physical Vulnerabilities in 2.4, I started running as NIN and DRG. All jobs got a 10% increase in damage (Marauder didn't), and they decreased physical/magical vulnerabilities. So compared to WAR, MRD does 10% less damage, and is 10% more vulnerable to both physical and magical attacks. With the CC available its still pretty good, but the way I played it, DRG and NIN does it better. MRD's changes to vulnerability is what it did it for me.

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I always look forward to running into you guys in there Blubbers, always a good fight.

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lol seems like it


In solo fights Fetter Ward and Bloodbath are invaluable. If you don't have all your CD's up/Cross Class skills you just have to make the best of it, but assuming you do this is how I would handle it.
Sprint > Invigorate/Icarus Wing/Enliven
..as you're running to the enemy pop some of your CD's
Fetter Ward > Bloodbath > Other CD's if you want (Featherfoot, Keen Flurry, B4B)
..Fetter ward will stop you from being heavied/stunned/etc.. so this is the one that gives us a huge advantage.
Then you can just do a full thrust combo and weave your off GCD actions in between.
If you get slowed you have Elusive Jump and Purify, and you can also use Weapon Throw on an escaping target to slow them down. Even if Weapon throw isn't up you have 2 jumps to close in. If those aren't up either, then its gonna be tough.

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it was almost a nice comeback though lol

[Atreus]

it was almost a nice comeback though lol

Doing A, B, and C's work, sound familiar?

[Cidolfas86]

In solo fights Fetter Ward and Bloodbath are invaluable. If you don't have all your CD's up/Cross Class skills you just have to make the best of it, but assuming you do this is how I would handle it.
Sprint > Invigorate/Icarus Wing/Enliven
..as you're running to the enemy pop some of your CD's
Fetter Ward > Bloodbath > Other CD's if you want (Featherfoot, Keen Flurry, B4B)
..Fetter ward will stop you from being heavied/stunned/etc.. so this is the one that gives us a huge advantage.
Then you can just do a full thrust combo and weave your off GCD actions in between.
If you get slowed you have Elusive Jump and Purify, and you can also use Weapon Throw on an escaping target to slow them down. Even if Weapon throw isn't up you have 2 jumps to close in. If those aren't up either, then its gonna be tough.

Is featherfoot really worth it though? I tried using it a few times and I didn't seem to dodge anything at all. I have a limited amount of space on the cross hotbar + L2/R2 - R2/L2 bars and I can't afford to have anything that isn't truly necessary.

Now are you running the full rotation or just Full Thrust combo? I've been debating if starting with a disembowl combo is worth it for the debuff and Chaos DoT. Is there a specific rotation/priority I can run as a DRG? Also how much of a difference does i90 gear make over say my Ironworks gear? I've gotten to lv25 and I almost have a full set of i100, wondering if its worth it at all. I feel a fool cause I didn't think Morale had a huge effect over my damage till now.

Any info is much appreciated. Trying to up my game to deal with pesky NINs, but the whole fight seems like a really bad match up if I don't have Fetter ward/my own stuns up to deal with the debuffs and stuns Nin can throw out. The same happens with tanks 1 vs 1 it just doesn't feel like my damage is where it should be. I'm thinking it has a lot to do with my extreme lack of PvP gear/Morale stat I can wear. Figured i120 gear was good enough.

[NaoKith]

Is featherfoot really worth it though? I tried using it a few times and I didn't seem to dodge anything at all. I have a limited amount of space on the cross hotbar + L2/R2 - R2/L2 bars and I can't afford to have anything that isn't truly necessary.

The conventional thought on WAR tanking is that Featherfoot is not very useful in PvE, let alone PvP. You're mitigating very little damage (unless you have many enemies on you at once, and you get very lucky).

[Dimitrii]

Is featherfoot really worth it though?

Not really. If you're really hurting for space and don't like switching macro pages you can go ahead and delete featherfoot as its not nearly as useful as keen flurry or even bloodbath.

Now are you running the full rotation or just Full Thrust combo? I've been debating if starting with a disembowl combo is worth it for the debuff and Chaos DoT.

Absolutely ALWAYS slap on these debuffs at the start of any encounters, especially against healers. The dots keep ticking even when people peel you off using cc abilities or sprint away from you so there is no real reason not to use them (especially now that they abolished the directional requirements to inflict the debuffs). Personally when I engage a healer I like to start Heavy Thrust > Impulse Drive > Disembowel > (Blood for blood if its up) > Chaos Thrust > Plebotomize > Feint. At this point you can start going into the full thrust combo and if you're currently the only one attacking the healer I often find that they get lulled into having this false sense of security in thinking you arent much of a threat dmg wise since the opening debuff combos wont generally lop off huge chunks of hp. The less experienced healers will make the mistake of letting their hp drop to near half hp as a result of the dots and ur full thrust combos and when you see this happen you can immediately stun them and kill them by expending ur pvp cooldowns (and jumps if need be) in quick succession. Obviously in one on one scenarios against other dps where the exchange wont last nearly as long you can forgo the dots in favor of just bursting them dead depending on what cooldowns are available.

Also how much of a difference does i90 gear make over say my Ironworks gear? I've gotten to lv25 and I almost have a full set of i100, wondering if its worth it at all. I feel a fool cause I didn't think Morale had a huge effect over my damage till now.

In terms of frontlines everything is item level synced so ironworks gear isnt necessarily better than i90 gear as both will be level synced to ilvl 80. The choice on what to wear primarily falls on what stats appear on the items (det, crit, skill speed etc). Alot of the ironworks gear is heavy on accuracy and while you do need some minimum level off accuracy in frontlines to make sure you dont miss (I cant recall exact number maybe someone else can chime in on that) you dont wanna have excessive amounts of it as it becomes a waste of a stat slot once ur over that acc. Also morale on gear ilvl 90, 100 and 110 do nothing in frontlines. It only works on ilvl 70 pvp gear in frontlines.

Trying to up my game to deal with pesky NINs, but the whole fight seems like a really bad match up if I don't have Fetter ward/my own stuns up to deal with the debuffs and stuns Nin can throw out. The same happens with tanks 1 vs 1 it just doesn't feel like my damage is where it should be.

I personally don't find ninjas that deadly to me in one on one situations as drg UNLESS they manage to hit you with that dmg taken debuff from trick attack and even then i can still burst them to death before they're able to kill me should i possess most of my cool downs. They are far more annoying when they realize they cannot kill you and try to run away as their innate increased movement speed, shukuchi, and their ability to bind u every 20 seconds (this is by far THE MOST annoying ability ninja possess to me) make it extremely difficult to keep up unless you have those jumps available along with weapon throw (though this will be purified off most times), purify and/or fetter ward. I still don't get why SE decided to give a melee both stun AND cc abilities but in any case unless you have those abilities I mentioned earlier available its best to just let them run and not waste time chasing. Regarding tanks all things been equal (player skill, available cooldowns) you wont really be able to solo tanks as drg so its best to avoid them in one on one situations. That drop you are seeing in your dmg against them are the result of them using abilities like rampart, sentinel, and vengeance. There is no shame in dying to a skilled tank 1 on 1 nor much you can really do against them.

[Ultimatecalibur]

In terms of frontlines everything is item level synced so ironworks gear isnt necessarily better than i90 gear as both will be level synced to ilvl 80. The choice on what to wear primarily falls on what stats appear on the items (det, crit, skill speed etc). Alot of the ironworks gear is heavy on accuracy and while you do need some minimum level off accuracy in frontlines to make sure you dont miss (I cant recall exact number maybe someone else can chime in on that) you dont wanna have excessive amounts of it as it becomes a waste of a stat slot once ur over that acc. Also morale on gear ilvl 90, 100 and 110 do nothing in frontlines. It only works on ilvl 70 pvp gear in frontlines.

Yes and no. Yes, ironworks is not necessarily BiS, and no, because of how morale and ilevelsync are done there are still some minor benefits for wearing synced gear.

The i70 Warwolf Skirt of Maiming is +19 Crit +18 Det, in PvP areas it is boosted to i80 with roughly +22 Crit +21 Det
The i80 Breech of Divine Wisdom are +21 Crit +30 SpellSpeed
The i90 Wyrm's Breeches are +24 Crit +34 SkillSpeed and iSynced to +24 Crit +30 SkillSpeed
The i90 Direwolf Trousers of Maiming are +17 Det +34 SkillSpeed, in PvP areas they are boosted to i100 with roughly +20 Det +38 SkillSpeed and then iSynced to i80 in Frontlines with +20 Det +30 SkillSpeed
The i110 Snakeliege Brais are +41 Crit +20 Det, in PvP areas they are boosted to i130 with roughly +47 Crit +23 Det and then iSynced to i80 in Fronlines with +30 Crit +21 Det
The i120/i130 (Augmented) Ironworks hose of Maiming are +31(+33) Crit +31(+34) Det and iSync to i80 with +30 Crit +21 Det

As a result the Ironworks Hose of Maiming and Snakeliege Brais are the BiS Pants for a Dragoon in i80 levelsync PvP with ~8 more secondary stat points than lower ilevel pieces.

[SeraviEdalborez]

The i110 Snakeliege Brais are +41 Crit +20 Det, in PvP areas they are boosted to i130 with roughly +47 Crit +23 Det and then iSynced to i80 in Fronlines with +30 Crit +21 Det
The i120/i130 (Augmented) Ironworks hose of Maiming are +31(+33) Crit +31(+34) Det and iSync to i80 with +30 Crit +21 Det

As a result the Ironworks Hose of Maiming and Snakeliege Brais are the BiS Pants for a Dragoon in i80 levelsync PvP with ~8 more secondary stat points than lower ilevel pieces.

Think you have some numbers off all over the place here.

i80 "high" values for body/leg are 30 crit/speed, 21 det. "Low" values are 21 crit/speed, 15 det. Ironworks legs are Det high / Crit low, so in i80 sync it has 21 Det and 21 Crit. Unless you're implying gear syncing down/up works differently than the rest of the game.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Think you have some numbers off all over the place here.

i80 "high" values for body/leg are 30 crit/speed, 21 det. "Low" values are 21 crit/speed, 15 det. Ironworks legs are Det high / Crit low, so in i80 sync it has 21 Det and 21 Crit. Unless you're implying gear syncing down/up works differently than the rest of the game.

Yep, ilevelsync and stat modifiction work slightly different than people think, ilevelsync drops stuff to the secondary stat cap (there is no "low" cap, the dev team just assigns green and blue gear at a second secondary at 2/3 cap) which is 30 crit/speed/parry/accuracy and 21 det for legs and body at i80. While the morale boost seems to increase the stats by the difference between the items ilevel and its PvP ilevel.

This effect was discovered when someone noticed that the Hellwolf and Werewolf accessories were syncing weirdly.

[Layth]

It doesn't matter if it's synced to i80 or i110. The secondary stats get capped at the highest amount the item level its being synced to is allowed to have, not by a ratio of the original gear's values.

The main point he was making is moral does actually do something even on gear higher than i70, because the moral effect takes place before the sync. There's some posts in the Frontlines Twinking thread that have more information if it suits you.