Savage Coil - Should it be level synced?

[Velo_Vandore]

No I haven't even completed T7 even with echo. Right now, I'm in a casual FC, and play with my friend and girlfriend. The FC raid between 8-9:30 each evening IF we have enough players on. There's no static as such - for locked content (if we are up to it) we rotate playing into the group each week, and if those players aren't all on, we do something else, like a primal or ST. I work and I have kids, so it's the way I prefer to play right now. I'm not saying that the others in my FC are less skilled or holding me back, but simply that we don't dedicate much time at all to raiding in comparison to hardcore FC's, and that the group being non-static is a major obstacle to progression too.

That said, I do love hyper difficult challenges in games, and in single player games where I can play at my own pace, I'll dig into the harder extra content. Whether I'm capable of completing a challenge like Savage CoB neither you nor I can say. In future I might like to be part of a more serious static group and be able to come back and see what I missed from Savage CoB. If I'm honest, I think it's unlikely to happen any time soon, if ever, but it's still something I would really desire (just not enough to ditch my friends and out of game commitments for).

I can accept that my opinion isn't as informed as yours might be, but I think you're being narrow minded to exclude anyone from the conversation who's not actually experienced Savage yet. Also, congrats on the titles (sincerely), but instead of throwing your weight around why not put your energy into providing a better argument for allowing Savage CoB to become easier and easier each patch. I'm not convinced that every player who's completed Savage CoB would share your sentiment, or even that the opinions of those players is necessarily the most important if they already got what they want.

[SpookyGhost]

I haven't set foot in Savage, but I can say that I think an ilvl sync would be unnecessary. Unlike the current SCoB, Savage retains all of it's mechanics at their intended difficulty (well, y'know, for Savage). Having higher ilvl gear is essentially the same as having the Echo buff, which will help people meet DPS checks easier/more survivability for the tanks/higher healing potency for the healers ~BUT~ they'll still need to learn every mechanic of each fight before they'll be able to beat it. So things will be a bit easier for higher geared players but the learning process will remain intact. Personally that's fine with me.

[Numenor1379]

Your post is an extremely accurate case study as to why someone who hasn't set foot in savage coil (have you even done normal coil without echo?) shouldn't be talking about savage balance.

I'm the one with the titles, and I think it would be a good thing for more players to get them. Because they will become better players by making it through the fight.

So I'm confused... as you're someone with those Savage Titles, WHY is it a good thing that they will become easier to get over time? Why would you want people to be able to out-gear this type of challenge? Putting an iLvl Sync in for the max level of gear at the time Savage was introduced seems a no-brainer for me (i110 or i90 penta-melded). That way future people who clear the content won't have the advantage of greater heals, higher defensive levels, higher damage output, than those who cleared it originally. Sure OHKs should still be OHKs in the future, and they will need to learn the mechanics... but why allow them the advantages better gear gives in the first place?

There's no "balance" in what you're advocating, only gradual easement of difficulty through higher gear levels.

[PetiteMalFleur]

I cleared T9 before echo and did try savage with my static and plan to clear with them once we clear FCoB. I'm totally against the idea of a level sync nerf. While I appreciate the wishful thinking of clearing content early for the great achievement of always experiencing the content the way it was first cleared by the best groups, and can relate in wishing my group could have gotten to the content sooner, you must understand why this is simply not feasible.

An item level synced player has all materia properties removed from their gear. I don't hold on to old gear so I would be forced into an item level sync. The i90 pentamelded jewelry I equip for VIT would be useless and I would be unable to obtain over 5.2k health. If you've looked at these turns you'd see the damage is incredibly high and early groups equipped a full side of crafted jewelry melded with VIT to survive. The item level sync would make these turns nearly impossible to clear by removing these materia properties players used to gain the vitality needed to survive unavoidable mechanics.

Rest assured though: the challenge of these turns is not in dps or in outgearing the content; it is in executing mechanics and group coordination. As a previous post mentioned, clearing savage is still quite an achievement and will make you a better player. None of the current bis gear will help with the myriad of one shot mechanics you will face in savage. If you go in with your i120-130 gear you will still find your group banging their heads against a wall in frustration and a great sense of pride when you finally clear. I can assure you "outgearing" savage will not take that away.

[Ellatrix]

Savage mechanics are still going to stomp players unless they put in time to learn, much more than normal coil turns. You also always have the option, if your group reaches consensus, to wear Patch 2.3 gear if you want to do the fight at the gear it was tuned at.

The driving force to challenge Savage is simply that - a challenge. Titles are cool, but that isn't why you do it in the first place. If more players feel that they want to give it a go now with a bit of a gear edge, that's fine. It may lead to more doing the content, challenging it, and becoming a better player in the process.

Is it easier now if you go in at i120 with i130/135 weapons? Of course it is, DPS challenges are much easier and you're probably going to be able to push at places and skip some attack patterns as well as recover from mistakes that was impossible to do before. But the bosses still aren't just going to fall over and die and are still going to require higher mechanical precision and teamwork than T10~13.

[SarcasmMisser]

The elephant in the room that people are forgetting is that if the ilevel sync was applied like it was in those dungeons it would actually be harder than the challenge originally presented, as melds on crafted items do not work with ilevel sync.

[Garlyle]

The elephant in the room that people are forgetting is that if the ilevel sync was applied like it was in those dungeons it would actually be harder than the challenge originally presented, as melds on crafted items do not work with ilevel sync.

I'm pretty sure this is why they removed the iLevel sync temporarily - so they can reinstate it later with it working properly.

Anyway, depending on how Heavensward pans out with post-50 progression and what happens to the current content, I really wouldn't be surprised if it ends up having a level 52 sync and locked to iLvl 135 or whatever becomes equivalent for that level range.

[Zdenka]

As Ellatrix is trying to get at 130 gear will not really help people beat Savage Coil that couldn't beat it before 2.4.

Many to nearly all mechanics will retain their similar "skill check" that the did in 2.3. Having 1k more HP actually isn't going to help on many of them.

People might be able to cheese Savage Rafflesia and it might be possible to skip a wave in ST8 but I'd wager those 2 cases where 130 gear will matter will still only be possible for people that have cleared them before 2.4 anyways.

When it really comes down to it, the Savage turns are still too technical for an increase in ilvl gear to really help people that couldn't beat them before.

[NovaUltimatum]

How much difference is there really between clearing savage on an ilvl cap of 110 and 130? Recently as more people have been taking an interest in Savage, I've been seeing those who cleared it in 110 saying that a 130 kill doesn't count as the handicap given is high enough to not really merit the prestige.

Even MrHappy said on his stream yesterday that ilvl130 kills "don't count" (outside of system achievements)

Another example:
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen..._clear/cpu0edk

People might be able to cheese Savage Rafflesia and it might be possible to skip a wave in ST8 but I'd wager those 2 cases where 130 gear will matter will still only be possible for people that have cleared them before 2.4 anyways.

I suspect it is for reasons like this that are causing people to dismiss the prestige of a 130 kill.

[Garotte14]

I haven't cleared Savage yet (currently working on it), but honestly I don't give a damn hows it cleared. I think its a cool achievement to strive for, and if I see someone running around with the savage title, I don't for a second check their gear to decide if I should dismiss their title or not. Its an accomplishment anyway you put it, and I don't care what gear was worn when it was cleared. Regardless, it takes a good team, with good communication and skill. I think anyone who clears it should be proud of themselves and their team, no matter what gear they were wearing.