Isn't it about time for SE to bring parity to paladins

[SpookyGhost]

Okay, not troll post (my initial post wasn't a troll I was genuinely dumbfounded):

Both of your suggestions aren't balance adjustments. In fact, the differences that exist are what balances the two. PLD has two stances: Sword Oath and Shield Oath; Meanwhile, Warrior has one stance: Defiance. When Warrior turns on Defiance, they are immediately at -25% of their maximum HP. This is the cost of the stance being off the GCD. PLD's cost of their stances being on the GCD is they take 2.5s to turn a stance on. You can actually drop Shield Oath without using a GCD, but you still need to use a GCD to switch to Sword and vice versa. Anyway, it's a balance thing. Warriors don't have a DPS stance, we just have the ability to drop our tank stance and turn it on at the cost of -25% max HP. Cost/reward... balance... y'know, both classes not being exactly the same.

Shield Bash is on the GCD because Warrior's is off it. To put this in context, PLD's Shield Bash is on a 2.5s recast time. Warrior's is on a 20s recast time. To take PLD's stun off the GCD you would need to change it to 20s, which would make the stuns identical, and take away the use the PLD has for stunning adds in Levi, stunning Dreadknights in Turn 5, etc. etc.

In summary, both tanks are different. If they were exactly the same, there would be no reason to bring both. So bringing PLD "up to par" with PLD isn't... a thing. This isn't like 2.0 where WAR needed to be brought up to par with PLD, both are perfectly fine as-is. Quality of life suggestions are fine, but these affect the balance of the two jobs and don't do it in a way that would be advantageous for the... well... balance.

[RayneBoemir]

I am not asking for shield bash to be off GCD... I am asking for it to not break your damage/enmity combo.

[SpookyGhost]

Oh, not break combos. Sorry, people ask for it to be taken off the GCD constantly so I just default assume that's what someone is asking for when they mention it. That seems fair enough, I don't think there's any reason it should interrupt your combo. Would be a good adjustment for getting aggro on the Levi adds and doing more damage to the Dreadknights during your stunlocking.

[TheodoreMcIntyre]

I would, at the very least, like to see Shield Oath and Sword Oath swapped in terms of level.
Making Paladins tank without a proper tank stance at 30 when WAR gets theirs with no strings attached is silly.
But then they make you go and wait ten more levels to actually get your tank stance.
It's silly.

[Thistledown]

I main WAR but I want to see those changes made too. They are NOT balance patches but Quality of Life ones.

Oaths should not cost anything and should be off-gcd (make them 10s recast, the same as Defiance).

Not so sure about the Shield thing though. Is it the 2.5s cd stun one? If so I feel it's a decent tradeoff since WAR's aoe enmity modifier breaks our combo too.

Anything on gcd that deals damage should break any combo. Period.

[Steady]

Shield Bash... vs Brutal Swing.

if you want the same cooldown as Brutal Swing, then fine. It used to be that Paladin was the preferred tank for Levithan, Ifrit HM etc. because they could LITERALLY spam Stun. Never heard of Chain Stunning? It's also why Paladin's were tank of choice to off tank. To ask for the best of both worlds just isn't reasonable

Sword/Shield Oath vs. Defiance -

Your wrong on this too. Defiance has it's own cooldown unlike your abilities on the global cooldown.

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While we are at it.. I want Inner Beast to be off the GCD, like Rampart. And Holmgang to give us Invicibility without dropping out HP to 1, and Remove control effects like Tempered Will.

I also want Berserk to not cause Pacification, because Blood for Blood doesn't on Paladins.

The classes are the way they are for balance. They are pretty balanced. And as that Paladin before me jokingly chimed about the superiority of his job... there still exists some contents which Paladins simply have it easier. You got a button for everything already. You got it good, and recent buffs just gave it to ya better.

[Keisatsu]

QoL change to Shield and Sword Oath's being off gcd and sharing cd without breaking your combo would be nice..Kinda like Whm StoneSkin II

[GeekMatt]

I much much much prefer PLDs stun over WARs. With WAR you can be reactive and hit it whenever you want, but then the next time you want it, it's on CD. PLD you can use it whenever they want, they just need to know what they're doing. AV second boss, I'm able to stun every time he turns to hit my ranged DPS/healers. Same thing with the frogs in the first room (and found many other places). In Qarn storymode I keep one bee on /focustarget and burn the other, where I'm fully able to stun either of their Final Stings. Sometimes I stun just for fun; Shield Bash the mob, run over and open a chest, then back to the mob before it moved. The only reason I don't stun more frequently than I do is the TP cost. It's such an awesome utility skill, it just requires more forethought and familiarity with the game then WARs stun does.

Shield Oath and Sword Oath however would be awesome off the GCD. The mp need I'm ok with, it causes problems sometimes but I think it's more than reasonable

[PWilson]

I'd be pretty happy if the Oaths were on their own shared CD that was off GCD, like WHM's Cleric Stance and BLM's Transposition.

I used to think that having the stun on GCD was fair. But with the ways ninjas generate aggro right now, it feels like I can't let up my enmity generation for a moment to -use- the stun! I don't have a problem with the other classes, just ninjas. Which really means it's a ninja balance issue, not a PLD one, I think. :/

[TouchandFeel]

Paladins don't get Blood for Blood they get Bloodbath, but then again neither of those abilities have anything to do with pacification or Berserk.

WAR doesn't have a built in OT stance like SwO because it is pretty much built in with Maim, while PLD has to go into SwO to get that dps boost. A WAR without Defiance on and a PLD in SwO have been shown to do approximately the same damage. WAR doesn't need another stance for OTing that gives them an even greater damage boost.

As for the items brought up by the OP, my opinions.

I don't really have a big issue with the stun interrupting combos, but I would be perfectly happy with both of the tanks' stuns not breaking combos.

I agree that SwO and ShO should be taken off gcd and am perfectly fine with them having their own cooldown and 10 seconds like Defiance seems fair.

The biggest disparity though between the two tanks is still damage output while in tank stance, that and not having a damage type resistance debuff like Storm's Eye.

However if they make any changes or give PLD any buffs, I feel that they should also buff/rework Holmgang.