Isn`t just vanity. Is 2 diferent experiences and thats why is bad.

[Senliten]

Enlighten us, then. How do you "win" an MMORPG?

You uninstall
inb4jokegoesoverfirsttimemmoplayersheads

[Xhominid]

Ummmm no, no they aren't.
Korean and Japanese versions Tera went F2P before Europe and America's version went F2P soon after.

Blade and Soul is P2P still with a CS, but because china's version is under a different publisher it's F2P.

Want proof before you say "You're wrong!" ?
My fiancee' writes for mmosite...

Last time I remembered, Korea's TERA is F2P only until 60, which then you have to pay to play.

[Xhominid]

Might aswell put coil behind cash shop considering how many people have cleared it or even set foot in it.
Its clearly optional.

Exactly. Everything doable in the game is optional. Why not pay for openeing the Market? Its clearly optional, no?
Tbh im skipping the marriage system most probably. I dont want a half-ass variant, and i cant afford to pay 50 bucks for a ingame Event in a game im allready paying for.

See? These are the logic bombs which makes it impossible to discuss anything with you guys. Because you go straight for the Slippery Slope Fallacy as your means of seeming like you are right.
You can say that about ANY game in general: All you are doing is buying the game for nothing then. Shooting enemies in Call of Duty is optional, you can just run past them, getting or switching to any other weapon pas the standard is optional, even aiming is optional, let that cost cash too...

You notice how ridiculous that sounds trying to prove a non-existent point? Coil IS optional content, but it's still storyline based content which Squenix deemed to be important which is why it's not behind a paywall or whatever other nonsense. But what is behind a paywall? The expansion...

[Rasylia]

-

Mind to explain why f.e. the market isnt as optional as the marriage system?
You know, you can simply sell stuff to NPC's and gather stuff you need yourself. Everyone who wants the shortcut aka market should pay a few € so SE gets more money.
Its the same with the marriage, no? Either you go the normal route, meaning, you get 50% for "free" (dont forget we are allready paying..) or you pay extra to get 100%.

[DoctorPepper]

I wonder if more people will participate in weddings than in final coil? I really wouldn't be that surprised to be honest since only a handful of players do final coil at the moment. Not trying to make coil sound any less important but since people are debating over optional content..

[Shake0615]

See? These are the logic bombs which makes it impossible to discuss anything with you guys...

Their point is that defining "winning" in an MMORPG is a completely arbitrary idea that has no foundation in the way the game is actually played. Coil is content, crafting is content, minion/mount-collecting is content, Eternal Bonding is content, glamour is content, the Gold Saucer is content. It's all content. What makes everyone feel that the one endgame raid in this game is the only content that can't be sold in the cash shop? Where do we draw the line between the nebulous term "winning" and "enjoyment"? If it's unacceptable to sell "winning" in the cash shop (i.e. advantages to the limited battle content), why do we allow "enjoyment" to be sold at an additional cost if we already bought game and pay a sub?

[Erudain]

As I pointed in the other thread, this is a pointless discussion since no agreement will be made.

Fluff is game content vs fluff is not game content.
Fluff in cash shop is also pay to win vs fluff is CS is not p2w.
The definition on win varies with the player vs nah winning is only clearing raids/primals/stuff

It's like listening to an atheist and a theist argue. They'll never come to terms and both will end the discussion angy....

[Xhominid]

Mind to explain why f.e. the market isnt as optional as the marriage system?
You know, you can simply sell stuff to NPC's and gather stuff you need yourself. Everyone who wants the shortcut aka market should pay a few € so SE gets more money.
Its the same with the marriage, no? Either you go the normal route, meaning, you get 50% for "free" (dont forget we are allready paying..) or you pay extra to get 100%.

Because the Market Board is the way that everyone gets items and sells things to others and the marriage system...is simply getting married, something most people can easily RP without no issue otherwise. Hell, there's a free version on top of that. Making the market boards payable from real money is extremely stupid, go ask Blizzard and Diablo 3...oh wait, they canned that stupid thing so why would that make sense?

[Rasylia]

...why would that make sense?

Why would making people pay for marriage make sense?

[Mook_Mook]

The slippery slopes arent slippery slopes at all. You're just a bit narrow minded. Collecting is important to said person now behind a pay wall. No one cares. Coil to said person is of uninterest so they would rather put coil behind a pay wall instead of have there play style affected. But people don't like that because it affects them. So is it a slippery slope no it's wanting people to feel the same punishment that people are forcing upon them. Makes sense really.