White Mage vs Scholar - Why is White Mage lacking?

[Kelya]

So I learned all the posts and actually no one was false or whatever, and all you are saying now is "X is saying wrong, Y is saying right". I get what you're telling since the begining Slib, and I get what other ppl figured out about your thought (you being a WHM hater, blablabla...). All Slib is doing is sharing facts about SCH he discovered by playing it more and more. I completly understand what was his first intention despite a lot didn't, because I know what he's talking about.

I main WHM because of preferences, but I play SCH too and I only can admit Slib is completly right for a lot of things. I mean, I'm not defending him since for me only 1 thing is important : YOU CAN SOLO HEAL ALL CONTENTS AS SCH OR WHM. (don't know for T10-T13 now, but it applies for all the previous HL content)

So I don't mind if Slib is right, wrong or have troubles explaining what he wants to say, because you can do all fights with 1 or the other. On one hand, Slib you said T9 Meglafare a WHM will need to ask raid to use Vitality pot, but it's not. He can do without (see videos on youtube) UNLESS 1 member is very low on HP, if it's the case, yeah, this guy will use it, but in normal conditions, everyone has enough HP to survive the attack with only SS. On the other hand, someone said "try to heal tank and raid after Megaflare as a SCH, good luck!" Well, again, look videos of solo healing T9 as SCH, and you'll see that it's not hard. Don't say things when you didn't check about it previously, because you may misinforming a lot of ppl.

Where I agree with Slib is about DPS and MP. A SCH can DPS a lot without thinking about his MP, a WHM can't. And if you DPS, most of the time you try to DPS a lot, not just 2 spells because it's not dpsing nothing otherwise. So when it comes to "DPS A LOT", SCH is the one in charge, that's why you always see, most of the time, a SCH dsping and not a WHM.

BUT, dpsing too much as SCH means you let the WHM healing more because he won't heal through your mitigations damages/shields, but through biggers damages all the time. In that way, I'm not okay with the statement "as long as everyone is alive, everything is alright". This statement is used by a lot of players, and for me this is what makes the difference between a correct healer and an efficient healer. Efficient healer won't play depending on this statement. NEVER. He'll look at overhealing, at some DPS, at maximizing healing (Refreshing regen before DS goes off, same with Convalescence of the tank, SS'ing the WAR during Thrille of Battle, ect...). It's nice if you can put some DPS, but I prefer an efficient healer that is only healing rather than a potential efficient healer that is only DPSing, because SCH strong is not only Lustrate, it's Aldo too. Why would I take a SCH in raid if he doesn't bring me any Aldo but dps ? Let's replace him by a real dps job then and go solo heal.

Btw, Aldo is amazing. It's another example that shows how much SCH is easier/better or whatever you will name it than WHM. Why ? Seriously, anyone here did ever try to spam Aldo on tanks ? Aldo + Embrace and the WHM doesn't have to heal anything except the raid. And the bonus : spamming Aldo isn't a problem since you can recover MP fast, and use Energy Drain instead of Lustrate (spamming Aldo you rarely have to use Lustrate since the tank doesn't take huge damages except big attacks) to gain more MP if you're spamming too much.

Guys, I'm loving WHM because SCH is... Seriously, try it, try spam Aldo and recover your MP all the time (when I say spam, ofc I mean Aldo again as soon as the previous Aldo disappears, not Aldo again above an Aldo still up) and then come back ! There is a big problem there... The WHM only have to focus raid, and the tanks are just going fine. You still don't see the problem ? SCH is completly SPAMMING ALDO ! This cost 319 MP, we are not talking about spamming a Cure 1, but spamming Aldo... You shouldn't be able to spam a heal that cost a lot of MP. You should have issues, but it's not, this means you are completly over-using the SCH job to make awesome things that you CAN'T do with WHM (MP issues, you can't do the same with Cure 2, besides you have overhealing issues if you do and then enmity issues). That's the point. And since they both can afford AOE damages in most of the fight (they both can solo heal) the difference is only about single target healing. And Slib is telling things like that, not that SCH is better, but that there is a problem between the 2 healers jobs. He's not hating WHM, I'm not since it's my main job, but I play both and I see really, really weird things like that, and you can't ignore things like that because they are too bigs, because they have big impacts on the fight.

If someone now, can say that about this thing (spaming aldo with no issues,that isn't necessarily the good way to heal as SCH, I know) we can't say WHM is lacking / SCH is too easy/too powered... Well, I don't know, it's just you can't see the truth. In fact I'm just saying Aldo MP cost must be increased/Aldo potency must be reduced or Aether Flaw CD must be increased/Aether Flaw MP must be reduced because when you got used to it, you can't even ignore it and you play like it, and everything becomes so easy, really. And that's one thing that makes me prefer WHM over SCH too, because WHM can't afford doing as much mistakes as SCH can, because WHM can't spam heal or dps spells, because you basically need to be perfect as WHM, and even more if you got a DPS'ing SCH with you in raid.

[Mister-Wonderful]

Many words.

Facepalm.

This whole thread is silly.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

The whole issue about all these comments against Slib is the fact that this topic even exists in the first place: The existence of this topic contradicts it's content.

OP keeps stating over and over again that he "loves white mages", but at the same time constantly puts the class down by comparing (unrealistic) scenario's of how scholars have an edge over white mage. Meanwhile likewise scenario's where White Mages have an edge over Scholar aren't even mentioned by the same person in question. Each time someone discredits whatever comments where made where it's "explained" that scholar > white mage, it's being repeated over and over again. Pattern being "I love white mage, but sch > white mage" while Scholars are being praised for X ability during Y situation while White Mages are only being talked down upon. This whole topic and whatever is being said by the OP? Contradictions all over the place. So why is this topic a contradiction of it's content? If the OP really loved white mages, this topic shouldn't exist in the first place

[Sebazy]

Where I agree with Slib is about DPS and MP. A SCH can DPS a lot without thinking about his MP, a WHM can't. And if you DPS, most of the time you try to DPS a lot, not just 2 spells because it's not dpsing nothing otherwise. So when it comes to "DPS A LOT", SCH is the one in charge, that's why you always see, most of the time, a SCH dsping and not a WHM.

Not so much, as far as Coil goes, you tend to see SCH dpsing due to having fewer issues with sub par accuracy. WHM damage falls off the cliff once they start missing. For 4 man content whm DPS is arguably better than SCH especially if you lean towards 50cap stuff.

[DarkmoonVael]

Facepalm.

This whole thread is silly.

You summed up that post far better than i could, so thank you Mister-Wonderful. I am sure you were as concerned as i was when a scholar suggests spamming adlo throughout the fight! O.o

Anyway, as others and myself have pointed out is the self defeating retractions the OP has had to make throughout this thread, as well as constantly changing his own arguments grounds.

This thread is just plain silly, i pointed out previously how the threads title and the OP's argument stance dont match most of what he has changed to in the thread. Selectivly using examples to prove your conclusion is not good debating skills. The arguments lack balance or acknowledgment of what a WHM can actually do.

And as other have pointed out, it really does just come across as a whm hate thread.

[KarstenS]

instead of 1 Medica/Medica II to handle the AoE, you want double succor instead?

No, because shields do not stack.

[Tranquil]

No, because shields do not stack.

I don't understand why you quoted DreamWeaver with a snippet like that somewhat out of the full context. They were just criticising the OP (rightfully so), not advocating the use of dual-Succors or stacking Scholars.

[DreamWeaver]

@KarstenS

Thank you for proving my point !!

[Minorinz]

lol this is not rocket science.
From a pure healing prospective a good whm is better than a good sch.
From an overall JOB prospective a sch will always be better than a whm, simply because a sch can counter the damage to be taken before it happens and can dps while damage is undertaking effect, it is not about how much dps a sch can pull.... they simply dps because their job is viable unlike whms, why? because their job was designed from a dps class to begin with, not to mention they have shields and a healing bot for such reason.
But if we're talking about how awesome whms are, you can clearly notice the difference of their skill level and efficiency by checking their mana reserves and pre-casts on incoming heavy damage, also their anticipation for incoming heavy damage and their proactive measures. A good whm can carry a good sch in terms of healing, but a great sch can cover up and RECOVER from a whm's mistake. I wanted to also add that both jobs can burst heal, difference is whm does it in one go and sch does it on intervals with less control.
tl;dr Both jobs are quite balanced and both require a lot of awareness in terms of said boss rotation and tank CDs, at least on high-lvl raids.

You cannot compare both jobs but you can complain about issues with a certain job output because of mechanics. SE can be fair that way. So far, whms are having no issues as far as i know up to t13

[StrangeBard]

I've actually been able to raise people 6 times in a row in a Turn 9 fight and not even have my MP dented. If a White Mage did this, they would be begging for ballad.

My only problem with your argument is that you had to raise people six times in a row. As a player of both WHM and SCH I feel like that is just bad healing on your part. If I am having to raise excessively as a healer I start to keep a closer eye on things to see what is going wrong.

In general I love both jobs. WHM gives me so much healing power that I can keep people alive a bit better; however, SCH has the flexibility that allows them to stance dance a little better. Damage over time abilities mean more time is devoted to healing and less to throwing out DPS. Also SCH has 3 damage prevention options: a weaker stoneskin, galvanize, and sacred soil. Stoneskin is the only long lasting one there so while sacred soil and galvanize are nice to have the timing on them has to be precise.