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  1. #1
    Player
    Zanmato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    271
    Character
    Saizou Kirigakure
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Rogue Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by MomomiMomi View Post
    You call it a melee and ranged hybrid with high attack power and low vitality, but it has high evasion and high parry and the ability to heal itself, largely countering its drawback.

    It has very strong debilitating effects.

    It can restore 100 TP and 18% MP to the party every 2.5 minutes. Compare to Shroud of Saints, which currently restores about 1000 MP, a bit less than 25% (and it's not a %), to the WHM's MP (and nobody else's) every 2 minutes. Also steps on BRD's toes.

    It has some powerful abilities with 15 minute and 1 hour recast times. The game is balanced around 5 minute recasts.

    It can give Dragoons the ability to play well. That alone breaks the game.
    Hahaha! That DRG joke. ^-^ Well... I guess I can adjust a thing or two.

    Just want to point out that in order to get those 18% (now 8%) MP is decently expensive (300 TP).
    The self-heal costs 2 stacks of sorrow, which is something you don't have every day and should be careful with once your timer starts to tick.
    The heal from canceling the Burn is something that you may not want to do, based upon how many stacks there is, and concerning how much damage you lose from canceling it.
    The innate healing resistance also reduces the percentage unless mentioned otherwise. :3

    -

    The reason for the long timers is due to just that, the moves are so good that they should require a long cooldown.
    The parry is merely effective in Earth Stance, and the job itself is demanding to be played in Fire stance, or you will lose 20% damage/slash.
    However, you are forced to revisit Earth Stance for the movement speed buff to get to places faster and keeping your dps going.
    (0)
    Last edited by Zanmato; 10-24-2014 at 01:54 PM.
    Eorzean Climber (Noborist)

  2. #2
    Player
    MomomiMomi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    2,527
    Character
    Momomi Momi
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanmato View Post
    The reason for the long timers is due to just that, the moves are so good that they should require a long cooldown.
    I realize this part, hence me saying it breaks the battle system's design. Our strongest abilities are on 5 minute recasts. Our battles are generally 5-10 minute ordeals. Making these powerful abilities with super long recasts does two things:

    1. Gives you an ability that is far too powerful for any given encounter.

    2. Puts you on the bench until they're ready to be used again.

    It doesn't fit into the game's design at all, and it'd honestly be a terrible design choice to include them. There's a reason they got rid of the "two hours" of FFXI.
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player
    Exstal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    1,582
    Character
    Shichi Mamura
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanmato View Post
    Here's one I made a few months back based upon the Hybrid role that will come with Dark Knight.

    So far abilities range up to LV 50 but I'll add up to 60 shortly.

    Samurai

    Primary Stat: STR, DEX (Yes, Melee, and Ranged. It is a Hybrid.)
    Main Weapon: Dai Katana (Great Katana)
    Weapon Alignment: Slashing, Piercing
    Hybrid doesn't necessarily mean two-stats but more so two different roles. I'll assume it's a DPS. Skills are based not on their stat but on the attack power. They had this back in 1.X where Monk was STR/INT and was terrible because your melee attacks suffered from less STR and your magic attacks suffered from less INT. So it was changed to just be STR/DEX = attack power for all skills. So splitting them up is a step backwards.

    I don't understand why it's great katana either. What happened to normal katanas? Ninja use daggers/tantō, why not just give them katana?

    Off-Hand/Secondary Weapon:
    Weapon Alignment: (Example: Slashing, Piercing... and so on.)
    Gear: (Melee, Ranged, Caster... and so on.)

    Strengths: Example: High Evasion. Very high attack power.
    Weaknesses: Example: Low Vitality. Is resistant to healing. Attack power is mostly depending on charging the abilities. Drains TP at an insane rate. Cannot move while charging an ability. Pick your slices and stabbings carefully.
    I don't know why a DPS class would need high evasion since it's not tanking. If you are the tank, then your primary stats should change to reflect what current tanks use.

    I notice you allow jobs to use skills;

    Cloud Shaper (WAR) - Worthless since it changes the dynamic of WAR into the same as your SAM, which is a charge class
    Tachi: Goten (NIN).- Would have been okay if you didn't have the fact that it's impossible to use without having Mist Thrust as a pre-requisite.
    Mist and Shadow (NIN) Basically Hallowed Ground for a DPS..and it's cross-classable? Straight up overpowered.
    Forging A Legend (WAR) Due to the fact that Sorrow is only something Samurai can get, this is unusable by Warrior.

    *omitted skills*

    Name: Solidify and Unveil
    Cast: Instant
    Recast: 2m20s
    Range: 0 - Radius: 7y (Small Circle) - Melee, Ranged
    Info: Only when playing Solo: Increases Defense by 20%. Prevents usage of Judan No Kamae for the duration.
    Only when in a Party: Increases own Physical damage by 5%. Increases Main Stat for all Party members by +1% for each debuff currently affecting the opponent(s) for a maximum of 5 debuffs (+5%). Cannot stack with other "Solidify and Unveil".
    Duration: 30s
    Acquired: Lv. 8
    Affinity: SAM
    Basically everyone gets +5% stats all the time given that almost every DPS class puts debuffs onto the boss. If you meant only Samurai's debuffs, balancing content to make it so that a party without a Samurai is at a massive disadvantage would be a nightmare.

    Name: Slashing the Horizon
    Alignment: Slashing, Wind
    Cast: Chargeable - 2s-4s (NOT instant.)
    Recast: 3.5s
    Range: 6-20y - Radius: 5y (Distant Flaming Arrow-wide Circle that expands while charging for up to a radius of 8y.) - Ranged
    TP Cost: 150-250
    Info: Delivers an Area of Effect Slashing attack with a potency of 180, 220, or 260 potency depending on charge.
    Additional Effects: If 3 or more opponents are within the hitable area, this attack costs 150 TP. If less opponents than 3 is within the hitable area, this attack costs 250 TP.
    Acquired: Lv. 20
    Affinity: SAM
    I'm not sure why there is a detriment for hitting less enemies. It basically always has to check if enemies are being hit. There is not really many tactical use in this skill. What if it was 3 enemies and one dies before you finish charge? You just wasted TP for no reason other than, "too bad, so sad, deal with it"

    Name: Mist and Shadow
    Cast: Instant
    Recast: 13m
    Range: 0y - Radius: 0y
    Info: Temporarily turns you untargetable to all attacks including Area of Effect attacks and erases all DoTs currently affecting you. Does not work against instant-death moves. Lowers Enmity by 30%.
    Duration: 15s
    Acquired: Lv. 25
    Affinity: SAM, NIN
    Overpowered. Near invincibility for two DPS classes while giving them a super esuna?
    Stance: Judan No Kamae (Fire Stance)
    Cast: Instant
    Recast: 3s
    Effect: Increases Slashing Damage dealt by 20%. Increases damage taken by 25%. Increases innate healing magic resistance to self by 10%.
    Acquired: Lv. 28
    Affinity: SAM
    A permanent Blood for Blood? I don't think this is a very balanced skill especially since it lowers incoming healing. As a DPS, this skill is too strong for the fact that it's a 100% uptime DPS buff. As a tank, lowering healing received is ludicrous.

    Name: Ward of a Samurai
    Cast: Rhythmic (Must be timed with the fully charged hit of Burning Skysplitter.)
    Recast: 10s
    Range: 0y - Radius: 0y
    TP Cost: 80
    Info: Cancels the Burn effect on the opponent(s) and converts the amount of Burn stacks into 11%, 15%, 19%, or 23% of the total damage dealt by Burning Skysplitter into HP. The amount is not affected by the innate resistance to healing or alignments decreasing healing potency.
    Acquired: Lv. 32
    Affinity: SAM
    A weird healing skill which is significantly stronger than Bloodbath.

    Name: Sorrow Throughout The Nine Worlds
    Cast: Instant
    Recast: 1h
    Range: 0y - Radius: 0y
    Info: Rapidly reduces HP to 0. Rapidly Increases Physical damage dealt for up to 200%. Increases Physical damage taken by 299%. Rapidly Increases Enmity gained for up to 500%.
    Duration: 7s
    Additional Effects: Upon death, grants 1 stack of Sorrow.
    Acquired: Lv. 39
    Affinity: SAM
    A near godlike DPS buff, if you couple this with Mist and Shadow, you can massive DPS if the healers can keep you alive for those 15s. Needs a massive nerf.

    Sorrow skills
    They are all imbalanced. Not a single one is reasonable, especially the one that has a potency of 1800.
    (4)

  4. #4
    Player
    Zanmato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    271
    Character
    Saizou Kirigakure
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Rogue Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Exstal View Post
    Snip
    I MUST clap. Very well done I must say. You show great patience by breaking all of this down.

    I disagree with a lot of this, of course, and found some things you said very... well... not so smart, such as the Tachi: Goten NIN affinity which probably everyone would think that it wouldn't need the mist thrust ahead of being used, along with some other things, there are a few things I can agree with.

    I personally don't find 1800 potency of damage for 3 sorrows to be overpowered at all. It is pretty difficult to get those stacks, which is the idea, and there should be a reward for it for doing so.

    I however must bow for you for taking time to go through all of this, that is very impressive, and I liked your post.

    Few things to point out tho.

    "I don't understand why it's great katana either. What happened to normal katanas? Ninja use daggers/tantō, why not just give them katana?"

    Oh, you know... something very annoying called PERSONAL PREFERENCE.

    "A near godlike DPS buff, if you couple this with Mist and Shadow, you can massive DPS if the healers can keep you alive for those 15s. Needs a massive nerf."

    The duration is 7 seconds, 9 seconds with trait. Sorrow Throughout The Nine Worlds is counted as an insta-death mechanic once timer reaches 0.
    Also, 200% is double damage, and since it goes from 0% and increases rapidly up to 200%, you will deal 200% of damage for perhaps at maximum, the last 2 seconds.

    "A permanent Blood for Blood? I don't think this is a very balanced skill especially since it lowers incoming healing. As a DPS, this skill is too strong for the fact that it's a 100% uptime DPS buff. As a tank, lowering healing received is ludicrous."

    Yes, it is very high risk, high reward. The damage from this stance is what makes the job. The damage without this stance is significantly lower. The risk is that with as little health as the job has, and with this going at the same time, combined with the innate healing resistance, one wrong move can cause healers to go all out on trying to heal the SAM, causing them to lose a massive amount of MP due to the resistance, or perhaps even Benedictions due to it.

    "Overpowered. Near invincibility for two DPS classes while giving them a super esuna?"

    A panic button for when in a tight spot. - Remember tho that I do not know if NIN actually has low HP. I took it for granted, and still do.

    "I'm not sure why there is a detriment for hitting less enemies. It basically always has to check if enemies are being hit. There is not really many tactical use in this skill. What if it was 3 enemies and one dies before you finish charge? You just wasted TP for no reason other than, "too bad, so sad, deal with it""

    Yup, the description said "pick your slices and stabbings carefully", not all skills can have positives only. Sometimes you burn, sometimes you fly.

    "Worthless since it changes the dynamic of WAR into the same as your SAM, which is a charge class"

    It adds 1 move that is a charge move to the coss-class skills. Can't deal with it? Don't use it. Also, just because it would change the dynamic doesn't necessarily mean that it would be worthless. That's a logical fallacy from your side.

    "Basically everyone gets +5% stats all the time given that almost every DPS class puts debuffs onto the boss. If you meant only Samurai's debuffs, balancing content to make it so that a party without a Samurai is at a massive disadvantage would be a nightmare."

    Any debuffs on any mob for the duration of 30 seconds. I agree with you here. It is too good and I should either remove it or redo it, for fun. :3
    Changed it to +3% maximum. Bring a SAM for a potential +3%! ^-^

    "Forging A Legend (WAR) Due to the fact that Sorrow is only something Samurai can get, this is unusable by Warrior."

    I missed this! Thank you. Will fix. :3 - Now fixed.
    (0)
    Last edited by Zanmato; 10-24-2014 at 03:14 PM.
    Eorzean Climber (Noborist)