Piety on Nexus weapon

[Artiste]

0.15sec in some fights, can make a difference, in burst dmg on take, or dps, or both, I can say the same about determination.

It's not 50-60 more determination, that does like 10 mind, that's gonna save someone or make the fight easier.

I even feel that 0.15sec casting speed can be more useful than 50-60deter that is like 20more heal on a cure, or less.

[Cynfael]

0.15sec in some fights, can make a difference, in burst dmg on take, or dps, or both, I can say the same about determination.

It's not 50-60 more determination, that does like 10 mind, that's gonna save someone or make the fight easier.

I even feel that 0.15sec casting speed can be more useful than 50-60deter that is like 20more heal on a cure, or less.

The best thing about DET is that it provides a consistent benefit. SS, on the other hand, is generally difficult to get any real benefit from except when chaining hard casts over an extended period (i.e. only when playing BLM).

That isn't to say that I don't support people playing the way they want, though. It's good to have some variety

[Artiste]

Yes OFC, I was thinking like you a while ago, I changed my mind.
Actually, both playstyle are not bad, like I'm saying usually, almost every stats work as WHM anyway (but I whould say a full crit build, I almost took aggro once in T9 when I crited too much, and I have only 400 crit)

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Spell speed is only useful for the currently terrible meta white mage: The reactive white mage. This meta involves players filling HP bars the moment they see the HP drop. The other kind of white mage would utilise pre-casting. Pre-casting would mean that you channel a spell in a manner that it heals someone the moment damage is inflicted. If you're the pre-casting type, spell speed is close to useless. Now why did I only mention White Mage here? Simply because Scholars can get away by not pre-casting or forgetting to pre-cast with Lustrates - Which White Mage can only do once every 5 minutes with Benediction. With this fact, even Piety would be more useful for Scholars than spell speed.

Another topic holds the discussion about this meta: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2355605 (from that post on)

About the topic question: Piety is probably the more useful stat to put on aside from determination. Piety gives you more self-sustain mp-wise. Once you're at a comfortable MP-pool, having piety on the weapon opens up more gear options that favors other stats (det/crit) over piety. Depending on the kind of healer you are, spell speed is useless as it will drain you of your mp faster or you'll have more idle time. Idle time would defeat the purpose of having spell speed in the first place (this time could be used to pre-cast and perhaps cast cancel proved to be unnecessary)

[Grotesque]

Spell speed is only useful for the currently terrible meta white mage: The reactive white mage.

Thats incomplete. Spell Speed often allows you to squeeze a heal out in movement heavy situations when others without spell speed have to abort, e.g. Titan Plumes just to mention one.

[Artiste]

Also, for, like a said on previous message, for burst dmg.
Like the 5c claws in T9, with 0.12-.0.15sec less each cast, you may be able to do cure2 a little before beetwin the attacks, also, have more time to cast stoneskin during the bahamut favor before begining to cats a new spell.

In 10-15sec burst, with spell-speed, you may be able to cast one more spell, but with determination, you'll just heal a little more, not a bad thing neither, but I prefer spell speed.

And dont make me wrong, It's not becoz I'm playing spell-speed that I play " on reaction ", if I was playing like this, I whouldn't go far in T9 when I went there first time with something like 94-95 ilvl.
I precast a big heal, like Cure2, when I know my tank gonna take high dmg, after trying the fight so many times, I know when he may take hight dmg (or may not in the scholar crit with his shield, and then, I overheal, but whatever)

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Thats incomplete. Spell Speed often allows you to squeeze a heal out in movement heavy situations when others without spell speed have to abort, e.g. Titan Plumes just to mention one.

Titan plume mechanic is a terrible example to elaborate spell speed. The tank will have no incoming damage while plumes are being cast - As it is being channeled. If the tank's prone to dying prior to plumes being cast, you're doing something wrong. There's no direct combination damage on the tank in that entire encounter unless too many people have died - Which will most likely lead to a wipe either way with 3+ deaths.

Also, for, like a said on previous message, for burst dmg.
Like the 5c claws in T9, with 0.12-.0.15sec less each cast, you may be able to do cure2 a little before beetwin the attacks, also, have more time to cast stoneskin during the bahamut favor before begining to cats a new spell.

In 10-15sec burst, with spell-speed, you may be able to cast one more spell, but with determination, you'll just heal a little more, not a bad thing neither, but I prefer spell speed.

And dont make me wrong, It's not becoz I'm playing spell-speed that I play " on reaction ", if I was playing like this, I whouldn't go far in T9 when I went there first time with something like 94-95 ilvl.
I precast a big heal, like Cure2, when I know my tank gonna take high dmg, after trying the fight so many times, I know when he may take hight dmg (or may not in the scholar crit with his shield, and then, I overheal, but whatever)

A properly prepped up tank can survive T9 claws: Stoneskin/Adloquium beforehand, Virus Nael, Pre-cast a Cure II/Adloquium before the first claw even goes in. Even with 0 spell speed you can get 2 cures in during the claws and one right after the 5th, spell speed makes no difference on this part - Three cures if you use Presence of Mind. Depending on the amount of favors you can even toss in a divine seal or lustrate right after the second adloquium. This part can be solo healed if needed or even a well-timed benediction is sufficient if you are late by reaction to it, rather than anticipating it. You even mentioned you pre-cast yourself. Whether you pre-cast with 1,90s casting time or 2,00s casting time, this does not matter when pre-casted.

For sake of numbers, you keep mentioning 0,12-0,15s casting time difference, but in practice that's way less. There's natural spell speed on a lot of pieces whether you want to take spell speed or not (HA choker, Sol choker, HA gloves, Sol gloves etc.). Without even trying to get spell speed in my gear I already have a 1,90s casting time on Cure. If I were to swap out my HA cane for something without spell speed that's at 1,94. Even if you manage to get 0 spell speed from your gear you're at a 2 second casting time. With max spell speed on the nexus (as we are discussing this, not gear overal), the nexus will decrease your casting time by a maximum of 0,04s. Contrary to the 0,12-0,15s you mentioned before.

[Artiste]

A properly prepped up tank can survive T9 claws: Stoneskin/Adloquium beforehand, Virus Nael, Pre-cast a Cure II/Adloquium before the first claw even goes in. Even with 0 spell speed you can get 2 cures in during the claws and one right after the 5th, spell speed makes no difference on this part - Three cures if you use Presence of Mind. Depending on the amount of favors you can even toss in a divine seal or lustrate right after the second adloquium. This part can be solo healed if needed or even a well-timed benediction is sufficient if you are late by reaction to it, rather than anticipating it. You even mentioned you pre-cast yourself. Whether you pre-cast with 1,90s casting time or 2,00s casting time, this does not matter when pre-casted.

Yeah, you do the fight by overgear now, now for the 2-3 first claw (in the fight i main, not the 2-3 first in a single attack), if I put stoneskin before, the tank can even survive without healing beetwin the attacks.
Now, we overgear everything in the game, was not same before.
With the kind of arguement, I can sy same about every stats and show how useless they can be.

I'm more thinking about next donjons, and I think there, even if only a little, more spell-speed will be more useful then more determination.
But I still focus on Piety mainly now.

About determination, like you said about piety, we'll get also a little on the gear, so the difference beetwin someone that focuson determination and someone that focus on speel-speed will be low also.
The secondary stats in this game doesn't make a huge difference, wathever the stats is, the arguement mean nothing.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

snip

I've first cleared T9 in i93-94 gear with an i95 scholar. If the tanks aren't geared up enough it simply involves different CD management, simple as that.


I stand by how useless spell speed is. You're looking at a 10 second time frame where I am looking at the entire encounter. Reducing your casting time by -0.05 or even -0.10 hardly does anything. All it does is speed up any corrections you have to make for blundering in the first place (preparation and pre-casting) and you're betting on luck that the 0.05-0.10 difference heals in time or not. No spell speed is necessary if you plan properly.

For determination you need roughly 25 of it to increase your healing by 10. Not an amazing amount, but what does spell speed do to increase healing? Determination virtually adds increased healing at no cost. Where spell speed -could- increase your healing only if you spam it without stopping. Any idle time nullifies any benefits spell speed gives. Which, again, makes it a useless stat. Additionally: 25 det equals 6-7 more hp recovery for Medica. AoE heals yield more hp recovered for every point in determination. But I guess spell speed does allow you to cast an extra Medica if you spam it 20 times. Because every white mage likes to spam AoE heals just for the heck of it, right?
Piety gives 7-8 more MP for every point in this. Although not an amazing amount either, piety offers you an increased MP pool to start with. A larger MP pool also means more natural MP recovery (2% of your maximum MP). Now does spell speed add any sustain? I believe not.

While this argument does not mean anything, it's more about reaching the full potential. But I suppose when third coil hits, scrubby healers with memory capacity of a goldfish could use some spell speed to patch up their mistakes. At least have the pride to defend your standpoint and ideals, rather than brushing it off as "this is pointless".

[Artiste]

You think you're playstyle is the best and you cant accept that, there can be different playstyles and there are not all wrong.

I didn't say spells-speed was the best WHM build, I said it's the one I prefer, didn't I ? Should read me again if you think so.

Why so much trash talk on me becoz I'm just saying that spell-speed is not as bad as ppl can think of it ?
And I never said also that you should remove some Piety to put more SS, no, I wont never say that, for me, Piety is the main stats of the WHM, and if someone remove some piety to put another stats, he's doing something wrong.

I never said Determination is a bad stats neither, plz, read my other messages, you're giving the same arguement I already gave.
Yes, determination is a good stats to choise after Piety, and you're not doing something wrong if you wanna play Piety/deter.