What's with the Early Pull Brigade?

[Thayos]

But there totally wasn't a witch-hunt towards the FC members that weren't trolling.

And thank goodness for that.

As for the FC's image, the people who were blatantly trolling were, unfortunately, trolling under the flag of a single FC, and unfortunately they tainted that FC's image. Stuff like this happens all the time in the business world... all it takes is a little bad press to stain a company's image.

and here we have the definition of "witch hunt".

Actually, that's like the opposite of a witch hunt. A witch hunt is when people (fueled by ignorance and paranoia) start blindly hurling out accusations/judgment against people who they're guessing may be causing them harm. In the case of this FC, members who were consistent resetters/early pullers were caught shouting in various zones about how they were trolling people. This is about as non-witch hunt as this kind of situation can get, lol.

[Brine_Gildchaff]

And thank goodness for that.

Might want to stop by Radio Shack, your sarcasm detector appears to be broken.

As for the FC's image, the people who were blatantly trolling were, unfortunately, trolling under the flag of a single FC, and unfortunately they tainted that FC's image. Stuff like this happens all the time in the business world... all it takes is a little bad press to stain a company's image.

... So innocent FC members who were not actually trolling had accusations and "guilt by association" thrown at them by people acting in ignorance but they're not in any way the victims of a witch-hunt?

[Thayos]

Might want to stop by Radio Shack, your sarcasm detector appears to be broken.

Nah, I see what you were trying to do. It's just that you were wrong, so I creatively used your sarcasm against you.

... So innocent FC members who were not actually trolling had accusations and "guilt by association" thrown at them by people acting in ignorance but they're not in any way the victims of a witch-hunt?

I still don't think you understand what "witch hunt" means.

I didn't see any evidence in that thread of accusations being thrown at members who weren't trolling. However, the idiots who were doing the trolling should have known they'd make their whole FC look bad by acting so heinously.

This isn't rocket science, nor is it a witch hunt (unless you can prove that current members of that FC are still being accused of trolling)... this is simple public relations.

EDIT: Here's a story which may help you understand exactly what a witch hunt is and isn't. On my server, there's a FC that's notorious for early pulling. Whenever this FC is active in hunts, there's almost always more drama, and they're often right in the middle of it. When people see members of that FC in the hunts, you'll often see things like, "Oh great, (FC name) is out here. Get ready for early pulls." That FC has acted with such disregard for everyone else that many people don't really like them. I just recently found a new FC... and had that FC offered me a spot along with millions of gil and a spot in a coil static, I'd have said no, because I wouldn't want to be associated with them.

However, nobody goes around singling people out from that FC. I couldn't tell you a single name of anyone in it. Nobody makes up crazy stories about them or tries to spread rumors about them hacking and what-not. That, if it happened, would be a witch hunt.

What happens in reality is they act like D-bags, so people don't like them. That's not a witch hunt; that's just conflicting social norms.

Regarding the FC we were discussing, people already didn't like them because of their continual inconsiderate behavior... and THEN a handful of members were caught shouting about trolling people in various zones. So THOSE people, for sure, got strongly criticized... but that's also NOT a witch hunt, because people weren't making blind accusations. They were literally addressing the people who had raised their hands and identified themselves (willingly) as trolls.

As for the rest of the people in the FC, they have to live with their name being stained... but that isn't a witch hunt either... unless, as I said, people are still trying to make them out to be cheaters, but that's not what I got from that thread at all. In fact, remaining members of the FC are in that thread, and other posters are offering them advice and encouragement. So, yeah, not a witch hunt.

Quoting things that I say, and underlining certain words in a random sentence that doesn't apply to what's happening, does not make something a witch hunt, either. In fact, that puts YOU on a witch hunt of sorts, although I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to achieve.

Hopefully this improves your understanding of the term!

[Trell]

I just thought it meant hunting old ladies with huge nose pimples flying on broomsticks who turn early pullers into toads.

[MomomiMomi]

On my server, there's a FC that's notorious for early pulling. Whenever this FC is active in hunts, there's almost always more drama, and they're often right in the middle of it. When people see members of that FC in the hunts, you'll often see things like, "Oh great, (FC name) is out here. Get ready for early pulls." That FC has acted with such disregard for everyone else that many people don't really like them. I just recently found a new FC... and had that FC offered me a spot along with millions of gil and a spot in a coil static, I'd have said no, because I wouldn't want to be associated with them.

What happens in reality is they act like D-bags, so people don't like them. That's not a witch hunt; that's just conflicting social norms.

Perspective is a funny thing. From what you just described, I see people trying to play the game. And a large group of people being, as you said, D-bags, to them.

[Tiraelina]

And thank goodness for that.

As for the FC's image, the people who were blatantly trolling were, unfortunately, trolling under the flag of a single FC, and unfortunately they tainted that FC's image. Stuff like this happens all the time in the business world... all it takes is a little bad press to stain a company's image.



Actually, that's like the opposite of a witch hunt. A witch hunt is when people (fueled by ignorance and paranoia) start blindly hurling out accusations/judgment against people who they're guessing may be causing them harm. In the case of this FC, members who were consistent resetters/early pullers were caught shouting in various zones about how they were trolling people. This is about as non-witch hunt as this kind of situation can get, lol.

"a campaign directed against a person or group holding unorthodox or unpopular views."

Sure is witch hunt in here. Much like calling any dissenter a troll.

[Thayos]

Perspective is a funny thing. From what you just described, I see people trying to play the game. And a large group of people being, as you said, D-bags, to them.

Except people aren't being D-bags to them. Like I said, people aren't going out of their way trying to make up accusations to get them in trouble or anything like that. And it's not like hunt groups are trying to pull early before people from that FC can arrive, nor is anyone trying to reset the mobs they've pulled early. Sure, you have a few fringe people who may say things in /say or /shout every now and then, but that's more of a fringe behavior, and people who start drama like that aren't welcome in most hunt groups.

Nothing the "horde" does infringes upon that FC's gameplay, but that FC continually infringes upon the gameplay experience of the majority of people hunting, and that includes people who don't belong to hunt linkshells. Hence, why so many people view them unfavorably, because they play as if they're the only ones on the server.

"a campaign directed against a person or group holding unorthodox or unpopular views."

Except this wasn't about a campaign, nor was it about people holding unpopular views.

This was people getting upset by others who were bragging about trolling them. There's such a profoundly huge difference. What you're trying to describe is in no way relates to any of this.

[Brine_Gildchaff]

Well, I can at least soemwhat see what you're saying, Thayos, but even if it's not specifically the definition of a "witch hunt" you still have entire FCs being branded socially with a major stigma, to the point where a large number of players jumped server to avoid the baggage of being associated with them, all due to the actions of a handful of people acting solely on their own and certainly not as representing the FC. And maybe this is just because I'm not part of an LS myself (I prefer either hunting in a small group or occasionally enjoying a stroke of luck and finding the mob while doing something else, like when I found Agrippa three days ago while doing Ixal dailies), but the impression given to me is that a LOT of these people will never be satisfied. I get situations where I find an A-rank, shout, wait easily at least five minutes, and STILL see people cussing in /s about "early pullers" and "not waiting".

[MomomiMomi]

Nothing the "horde" does infringes upon that FC's gameplay, but that FC continually infringes upon the gameplay experience of the majority of people hunting, and that includes people who don't belong to hunt linkshells. Hence, why so many people view them unfavorably, because they play as if they're the only ones on the server.

I sincerely doubt the first part. And I in no way see an early pull as an "infringement" of anything. That's just how the game goes. We obviously disagree on this.

If I don't make it to a hunt, no matter how early anyone pulled, I don't care. I move on. There's no need to get upset. People need to learn to get over it.

[Thayos]

I get situations where I find an A-rank, shout, wait easily at least five minutes, and STILL see people cussing in /s about "early pullers" and "not waiting".

This is true... but it's also not fair to assume these people are in hunt linkshells. I'd be willing to bet a lot of people who do stuff like that are newer hunters who aren't used to the frustration of early pulls. Once you've hunted for awhile, you just accept that it happens and move on.

If I don't make it to a hunt, no matter how early anyone pulled, I don't care. I move on. There's no need to get upset. People need to learn to get over it.

See? We're not as far apart as one might think.