Can we just have the Wrath of the Lich King Raiding Scheme?

[Noel_Clover]

Actually they lost 800,000 subs. ((SOURCE)) : http://www.gamespot.com/articles/wor.../1100-6421529/ . But then again they lose and gain every now and then.

I would like to point out that add-ons made things easier, and so players were unable to work with a more manual system. I think I'm the one you're quoting on add-ons by the way, I could be wrong and presumptuous. Hope I'm not. It would be terribly embarrassing.

I would also say that your view of the add-on usage is also a wrong view then, because people were really coddled by the use of add-ons and really can't do raids and stuff without them. And I'm being perfectly serious here. I'm looking at it in a very broad, general view with the idea of players actually getting better in mind. I'm not dismissing that add-ons do help ((I used add-ons to modify text and location of words, but never, ever used anything to tell me to start running and stuff)) a gamer, but it's most certainly a crutch for players who do use it. Remove this crutch and you get what we have now in FFXIV: Players being unable to complete simple objectives, like going to a dedicated damage sponge team or not get under Twintania for conflag because they're used to giant text popping up in their faces with wonderful alerting sounds blaring up their ears.

It's like driving stick after driving a wonderful, convenient auto for a long, long while. You'll probably suck at it.

The "best players" ((Term used loosely mind you)) had to use mods because at that point everyone was using and applying the rule of "Use it or beat it" ((seriously)) , and I remember something about Blizzard starting to tune stuff to the use of add-ons. I might be wrong on the latter mind you, but the former was the case with some of the people I talked to. Not that it's everyone since I don't talk to a few million people, but it still gave an image.

[Fendred]

Actually they lost 800,000 subs. ((SOURCE)) : http://www.gamespot.com/articles/wor.../1100-6421529/ . But then again they lose and gain every now and then.

I would like to point out that add-ons made things easier, and so players were unable to work with a more manual system. I think I'm the one you're quoting on add-ons by the way, I could be wrong and presumptuous. Hope I'm not. It would be terribly embarrassing.

I would also say that your view of the add-on usage is also a wrong view then, because people were really coddled by the use of add-ons and really can't do raids and stuff without them...

I'm talking about Wrath of the Lich King, which was WoW circa 2008. Go look at financial reports for it at that point in time. They were in the positive and gaining subs at that point. You are erroneously looking at a financial report from 2014.

Addons hardly "coddled" players. Teams still wiped frequently before defeating bosses. Also, I hardly consider finding a good golden middle that lets the different demographics meet and share a genuine raiding experience (which is not Crystal Tower) "coddling" players. Especially when they have time to create an even harder mode for the top 1% of players like Blue Garter (I'm looking at you, "wasting developer time on newbs" Dwill...)

[Amberion]

I'm talking about Wrath of the Lich King, which was WoW circa 2008. Go look at financial reports for it at that point in time. They were in the positive and gaining subs at that point. You are erroneously looking at a financial report from 2014.

It was released in November 2008, and had a slight increase in subs before it. But they lost those after like 2 months. So it did not do so well. WoTLK started it's turn for the worse, subs stagnated.

[Dwill]

It was released in November 2008, and had a slight increase in subs before it. But they lost those after like 2 months. So it did not do so well.

Wrong, try again.

[Amberion]

Wrong, try again.

I used this one: http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

And it shows a increase during release, then it declined and stagnated until Pandaria, where it subs plummeted.

EDIT: Guess you quoted it before I edited in the stagnating thing there.

[Dwill]

I used this one: http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

And it shows a increase during release, then it declined and stagnated until Pandaria, where it subs plummeted.

EDIT: Guess you quoted it before I edited in the stagnating thing there.

It shows stagnation 2 years and a half later, not 2 months.

[Amberion]

It shows stagnation 2 years and a half later, not 2 months.

World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King — second expansion, released 13 November 2008. So I counted from beginning of 2009. Usually the time it takes after an expansion to see how subs will go.