Who is gonna raid now with the iLvl 110 gear handed to people??

[Eissels]

Evangela, do you need a T5 clear? Serious question, I love running T5 and we are on the same server xD

So uh, sorry to Hijack, but uh... Can...Can I get in on this? c.c;;

My FC has been focused on other things. ;w;

[Nutz]

Timing is not fine. We arestill on the same tier for still 3-4 months. By the way, I don't have SCoB gear, I'm against handouts.

So are you suggesting it would have been fine to release the next tier of Coil/gear and then make sands/ oils available elsewhere? Nobody's going to want to bother with sands or oils when 2.4 hits because new tome gear will be ~i120 and super easy to get once again.

You're saying people will run it a few times for fun/ challenge, but not for months. How quickly do you think people are going to get through Coil (having not done it before)? There should be 10-12 opportunities remaining before TCoB. Sure a lot of people might sit out the last few weeks, but who cares? That's going to happen whether people are geared up or not because they know better gear that's easy to get is coming very soon.

[Nabian]

What most people want is for there to remain a small gap in gear between raiders and non-raiders. Essentially setting them apart from others. I think it would be nice (though not really possible) to just look at a character and without ever grouping with them know exactly what their skill level is.

[blowfin]

What most people want is for there to remain a small gap in gear between raiders and non-raiders.

There was in 2.2 and there will be in 2.4. Surprise surprise that 2.3 (a patch for the majority) bridged the gap before 2.4.

I think it would be nice (though not really possible) to just look at a character and without ever grouping with them know exactly what their skill level is.

Welp, you could do this with HA still. Not that it means a whole lot outside of second coil, I've seen enough people equipped in HA wiping Moogle and Levi EX groups to know that's it's not a great indicator of skill in any other content.

[indira]

you froget this is a gear score game by 2.4 SCOB might be old news and obsolete then we'll have ilvl120. almost pointless to bother with the raids. majority of people get carried through content anyways or they buy wins, why do you think "clear partys" fail in the PF just because someone cleared the content dont mean they were even alive in the fight.

[Shioban]

Welp, you could do this with HA still. Not that it means a whole lot outside of second coil, I've seen enough people equipped in HA wiping Moogle and Levi EX groups to know that's it's not a great indicator of skill in any other content.

Gear doesn't really account for skill sadly, (sometimes a HA weapon counts for something, although not always)

Seen a fair number of great players who've gotten virtually nothing from Turns 4-9.

I'm semi-decent on T9 and I've had two HA drops from coil I can actually use for two different classes.

almost pointless to bother with the raids.

There's a ton of reasons;

• Best In Slot Gear
• Vanity
• Static Groups (Pretty sure most people won't have the items they want for their main/alt covered yet)


Could list more if you want~

[dejavutwo]

So are you suggesting it would have been fine to release the next tier of Coil/gear and then make sands/ oils available elsewhere?

That would have been the perfect way for them do do it from my point of view, and would have avoided a lot of the issues with hunts as they are now.


If sands and oils were held back, they would have been a way to quickly catch up to the new raid in terms of gear. They would still be relevant due to the i120 tome gear having a weekly limit, so when the patch hit the sands/oils would have been in the same position as Darklight was when the game launched. Players would ultimately be going for the i120 tomes, but could go for i110 with the unlimited hunts or the lockout-removed Coil 2. Since it is then "Catch Up" gear, instead of top-tier raid content, players wouldn't be zerging the hunts down, and would have options that are more-or-less equivalent in terms of progression since they would have the choice between farming coil or hunts. There is also the weapons. With the UAT dropping in ST, the sands would have still been highly valuable as a way to upgrade your weapon to i110.

[blowfin]

That would have been the perfect way for them do do it from my point of view, and would have avoided a lot of the issues with hunts as they are now.

Right but then you're releasing a patch with no real upgrades for... anyone really, and lacking a big chunk of content. Raiders wouldn't get to fill out their gear sets, casuals wouldn't have an i110 progression path. People would just skip oils and sands entirely in favor of the next coil tier. It would be a disaster. Far far worse than any of these "issues" with the hunt.

[Nabian]

Right but then you're releasing a patch with no real upgrades for... anyone really, and lacking a big chunk of content. Raiders wouldn't get to fill out their gear sets, casuals wouldn't have an i110 progression path. People would just skip oils and sands entirely in favor of the next coil tier. It would be a disaster. Far far worse than any of these "issues" with the hunt.

Why would causal players skip oils/tombs? If they had waiting until 2.4 to release oils/sands into the hunt things would have worked out and here is why:
1) Hardcore/Raiders would be attempting the TCoB to get the newest tier of raid gear.
2) Casual Players would be attempting to get SCoB gear and upgrade their old ilvl100 gear to ilvl110.

If they hadn't released oils/sands this patch then sure..hardcore raiders would not see any upgrades in gear but casual players would STILL be working to get their full ilvl100 set.

Yes...raiders would most likely NOT be going after oils/sands for their main class, but there is the possibility of gearing alternate classes for fun (if that's your thing). However, the casual players would be very interested in upgrading their gear while they work through SCoB (which would be entirely new content for many of them).

People say all the time that raiders shouldn't get new content every patch because its not fair to casuals who get nothing, but I think this statement is false. If someone has never entered the content before..then it's new to them it doesn't matter when it came out.

[Askarya]

God this thread is hilarious. Most of you guys are arguing and arguing and arguing while not even hitting the point.

The problem is not giving "casuals" i110 gear. Give them their gear for their vanity purposes it's fine (and yes i110 is actually only for vanity purposes because you can actually down t9 with an avg ilvl 95 of the whole group AND Savage coil, oh and if you haven't tried savage coil please.. please don't try to judge how hard it is or how much work it is. Just because t6s got downed after 2 days doesn't mean it's a piece of cake).

The real problem is the rate at which you CAN obtain sands. Ofc not everyone will do it hardcore, some will just kill a mark while they're on their way to do a quest or whatever but the fact is that you can get alot of sands in a rather short amount of time if you really want to.

For example: If they locked the sands to 1/week from hunts "casuals" would be full i110 on their left side in 7 weeks (counting the i110 weap). After that they could still get atleast 5 pieces (assuming 2.4 hits exactly 12 weeks after 2.3 but it'll prolly be a bit longer) for another class. This example won't work for people who started with 2.3 or later because of soldiery cap but that's a different story. So after that patch cycle they could have nearly 2 classes in full i110 (assuming they also got oils from ct or t7 or whatever), so they get their "sense of progression" (my own opinion is that going from i90 to i100 is progression too but apparently "casuals" need double the progression as raiders do, or where is the progression for people which are already full i110? And don't say other classes now.) coil would still have this "carrot" (getting additional sands to gear up more classes or gear up faster).

That way there would be a Balance between the raiding content and the "casual" content. And after 2.4 hits they could just remove the weekly sand lockout so everyone can get their remaining classes easily to i110 while focussing the new currency on their main class to get to i120-130.

And like i said before, i know that not everyone is burning through hunts like crazy to get sands, that's not the problem. The problem is the possibility to do that. It's really just a balancing issue. And i think that this example would've been the best solution which would cater to both sides.