Square...Bethesda has the right approach.

[giftforce]

Square said they are working to fix communication and development protocol, so maybe they will be more hands-on in coming years.

I like how Bethesda tries to make the NPCs and the world dynamic and develop naturally, but I don't really like their games myself. Well, I didn't like Oblivion.

I think there's a lot SE could learn from them, but probably a lot they could learn from SE too.

[Physic]

This game's issues come down to design and general lack of polish. The latter more-so than the former.



It's also the first game ever to attempt something like this. hey, maybe there's a correlation!

its actually not. CO went through a big f2p conversion recently, took them 6 months, the truth is the drastic reworking... is not really drastic reworking, cosmetically anyhow. I cant speak for what they may have had to do with the behind the scenes code, but juggling abilities, and altering the way some function and adding auto attack are not that deep, its not a years worth of development.

Aside from that they have done nothing, and thats also weird since they already had a decent amount of things done before they even released that have yet to be added, and even more planned. (look at old databases that were leaked that they had to take down)

Its pretty slow, speaking strictly in terms of results. Also dont blame the changing teams, games change directors, producers etc, all the time and they keep on trucking, once again look at CO.

Fact is, this pace of changes is slow, even straight building from the ground up, they have games that show more progress in alpha form.

look its pretty common that people will take assets from a different game, tweak them use a different engine, add content and rebuild the whole entire game in less time, look any number of portable conversions.

Its just slow man. I know you like defending them, but slow is slow. maybe they ll get faster, in fact i hope they do, but yeah this is slow.

[Renshi]

Hmm... if FFXIV has been released buggy, then why the hell aren't they fixing it!?

Oh wait...


heh, don't mind me. I hate when two companies are compared just to check some little things that the other company can do better than the other one. There have been comparisons in the past (PS3 - Wii) and the result didn't turn out that "well" (Playstation Move)
If a company can't do things well by itself, then it's dead. Square Enix and the Dev team, in the other hand, is doing all they can in order to fix the game they've released.

[Cairdeas]

lol talkingabout bethesda like they know how to build a proper engine.

How many times did Fallout 3 brick my xbox360 for an hour? Oh yeah. EVERY FREAKING DAY

its actually not. CO went through a big f2p conversion recently, took them 6 months, the truth is the drastic reworking... is not really drastic reworking, cosmetically anyhow. I cant speak for what they may have had to do with the behind the scenes code, but juggling abilities, and altering the way some function and adding auto attack are not that deep, its not a years worth of development.

Aside from that they have done nothing, and thats also weird since they already had a decent amount of things done before they even released that have yet to be added, and even more planned. (look at old databases that were leaked that they had to take down)

Its pretty slow, speaking strictly in terms of results. Also dont blame the changing teams, games change directors, producers etc, all the time and they keep on trucking, once again look at CO.

Fact is, this pace of changes is slow, even straight building from the ground up, they have games that show more progress in alpha form.

look its pretty common that people will take assets from a different game, tweak them use a different engine, add content and rebuild the whole entire game in less time, look any number of portable conversions.

Its just slow man. I know you like defending them, but slow is slow. maybe they ll get faster, in fact i hope they do, but yeah this is slow.

BM:S would like to have a word with you. Total Conversion of Source to remake Black Mesa, Its been in production 7ish years, still not released. Was SUPPOSED to release in 09 btw. its 2011. Development takes time, especially with a small team.

[Verecund]

SE needs to take hints from Bethesda on how to make an RPG.

Also, the bugs in Bethesda's games utterly pale in comparison to the multitude of shit that was present in FFXIV upon release (and FFXIV is an MMO, you would think there were higher standards)


Let the cheerleading begin

[Cairdeas]

SE needs to take hints from Bethesda on how to make an RPG.

Also, the bugs in Bethesda's games utterly pale in comparison to the multitude of shit that was present in FFXIV upon release (and FFXIV is an MMO, you would think there were higher standards)


Let the cheerleading begin

My experiance with FFXIV has been much more relaxing when it came to bugs then any bethesda game I've ever played. The opening Scene to Oblivion had more bugs for me the first time I played it then every bug thats directly impacted in FFXIV for the last almost year. Including Beta Bugs.

[Drazzan]

I've never enjoyed a Bethesda title to this day.
At least not one they developed themselves.
I find that Fallout, Elder Scrolls; they are all too "Open".
I feel lost without a driving force behind me that you find in a Linear/JRPG.
I've had a conversation many times in the past that a Linear, Strict RPG
can always deliver a better story than an Open World RPG. Or at least in
Bethesda's examples they have never nailed the story telling to pull me in.

[Firon]

I've never enjoyed a Bethesda title to this day.
At least not one they developed themselves.
I find that Fallout, Elder Scrolls; they are all too "Open".
I feel lost without a driving force behind me that you find in a Linear/JRPG.
I've had a conversation many times in the past that a Linear, Strict RPG
can always deliver a better story than an Open World RPG. Or at least in
Bethesda's examples they have never nailed the story telling to pull me in.

I Agree with this so much i just don't understand why people drool over their rpg's maybe it feels like an GTA rpg or something idk but most people who play Fallout etc wont play an traditional rpg.

[Drazzan]

I Agree with this so much i just don't understand why people drool over their rpg's maybe it feels like an GTA rpg or something idk but most people who play Fallout etc wont play an traditional rpg.

I'm glad someone agrees. I've had this conversation with others. At first they
don't like it, but the more we discuss the more they realise it is in fact truth;
for most people play Oblivion and Fallout they'll mention one of the key highlights
as "Freedom to explore" and "Do what you want". Where as mostly with JRPGs when
a fan mentions a highlight "Great Story" will usually always be up there. At the end
of the day. I want a Great Story with my RPGs.
I found that Square Enix done well in FFXI and even what I've seen of FFXIV. I
personally thought that FFXIII's story was great, but the delivery of the story wasn't.
My only problem with FFXIII is the delivery of the story.

[giftforce]

I like open MMOs. Sandbox ones. I think a linear story-based approach is wrong for an MMO if you actually stop and analyse what an MMO should be.

It's weird because Tanaka always said that he wanted players to play in the same world (no instances) and, also, the old development team put a lot of emphasis on a player-driven economy... so they obviously thought that player-interactions were an important aspect of the MMO genre and philosophy. And yet for some reason they marketed the game as a story-driven MMO (!?). There's an irony there.

Linear stories are no place for an MMO where player-interactions can and should serve as substitutes.

In this sense, Bethesda have the right idea. Their games are more dynamic, and I'm sure an MMO with these game-design principles would be successful because it would play to the inherent strength of the MMO genre.

But, in saying that, I found Oblivion to be very boring as a single-player game. It's no fun playing that type of game by yourself.