WAR MT + PLD OT vs. PLD MT + WAR OT in terms of DPS

[Geobryn]

i know this topic is "in terms of dps", but if OT is constantly ripping aggro, well, OT is not OT anymore
so my question is, in situation war MT pld OT, won't pld take aggro of war ?

maybe i just met bad wars only, but if i'm ot with my pld i just can't go halone all the time ...

[Alphras]

No that wont happen. The WARs you have met must have been very bad.

[Geobryn]

No that wont happen. The WARs you have met must have been very bad.

would like to see math behind that statement XD

[Kletian]

A paladin spamming Halone will Outthreat a Warrior using only Storms combos.

[Skull_Angel]

A paladin spamming Halone will Outthreat a Warrior using only Storms combos.

Pretty much this. I'll have to swap between Storm's and Butcher's when main tanking single-target to hold threat over a pld that understands how to pump damage ( << tank swap, but if I'm able to toss in U+B+IR with no swapping there's no contest for quite some time).

[Fue]

Yes if every other combo isnt BB combo you will lose aggro to pld unless you have secured a safe lead already.

[Reynhart]

Well that makes sense.
Like i said was probably reading it wrong.

No, you're right, Unchained doesn't apply to Inner Beast.

So we need to replace the (230.87*1.055*[all other numbers]) by ((206.67*21/24)*1.055)+(400*3/24))*[all other numbers]) in the last equation.

[Kitru]

No, you're right, Unchained doesn't apply to Inner Beast.

It doesn't apply to Inner Beast, but it's not a significant difference so I decided to ignore that to simplify the math a bit (I did say that I was simplifying some of it). A lot of the math dealing with WARs, by necessity, has to be simplified to make it easily readable and said simplifications don't actually do much to the end math because the changes incurred by said simplifications aren't particularly big.

The fix that you're suggesting equates to 240.78 ((206.67*21/24)*1.055 + (400*3/24)), which means that the equivalent in the math I posted (230.84 * 1.055 = 243.54) is all of a 1.1% increase (243.54 / 240.78).

If you want to get absolutely anal retentive about the stuff I've simplified, I've also ignored the +crit contributions of Defiance (you'll average ~2.75 stacks over time and each stack contributes slightly less than 1% total damage, so that's ignoring a ~2.6% increase to total damage) and the inevitable loss of uptime for the SE debuff (which translates into an 11% decrease in damage for the SE immediately following IB, which means that IB adds a 400 potency hit but reduces the potency of another attack by ~30 so it's really more accurate to label it as a 370 potency hit) too. Furthermore, because I've averaged everything, there are all kinds of other nuances ignored for simplicity's sake.

The point is that all of those simplifications are, semantically, inaccurate, but, honestly, their effects are so minute (and, in fact, end up counteracting each other quite effectively) that they don't really have an appreciable impact upon the end numbers.

[The_Badger]

I've skimmed through most of this thread and for the most part people are just spouting out this or that without any proof, per usual. The only evidence I see is from Kitru but it's theoretical and has it's flaws.

To keep this short and sweet; PLD will NOT out DPS a WAR in equal gear, ever. Maim, 10 more base STR, and a higher potency main combo are all factors many seem to forget. I've ran the tests before and I've never once had my PLD do more DPS than my WAR in equal gear, in ANY scenario. Now I don't like when people claim things without backing it up so I won't do that either. Below is the links to the tests I ran a while back.

HERE and HERE are the tests and numbers. If you feel I've made some errors or simply don't believe the tests I encourage you to do the exact same tests as described in the post and share the results.

Again I want to reinforce a few key points:

Without Maim, just using a basic 123 combo, the numbers are very very close between PLD and WAR, but every time WAR was barely ahead. This is likely due to 3 inherent facts -

1.) WAR has 10 more bas STR
2.) WAR has a higher potency basic combo - by 20 potency.
3.) Maim is a flat 20% increase to damage done. (in 2nd set of tests where buffs are used)

RoH combo is 150, 200, 260.

BB combo is 150, 200, 280.

Please see THIS post for updated info.

[Skull_Angel]

Your parses don't seem to reflect the damage a PLD will gain with the SE debuff, that's 11% damage missing (something like 11.5% if you want to get anal, iirc), which is also stated in the first post linked. That would set the parses at nearly equal, but I also think that SE > BB combos is higher damage over all because you lose SE debuff on a full combo going SE > BB > BB. I'll also add that your data points seem to be fairly small, RNG could have easily skewed the data and we don't know if you cherry picked the best and worse.