PLD feels underwhelming lately

[Synestr]

There are places for Warriors, there are places for Paladins, at times both are needed in the same place at the same time. I do not play WAR, but one of my FC officers does, he is damn good at it. He tanks just as well as I if not better at times. It depends on what you are going against IMO. My interpretation is they are relatively the same. Different skill sets and play styles but as a tank they are relative. They each possess abilities that allow for mitigation, increased incoming healing and threat generation. How they do it is specific to the job. Arguing that XXX is better than XXX because they have X or it's unfair they get X skill....is mute. I wish I had a skill that increased my HP and incoming healing....oh wait, instead of the extra HP I have a constant 20% reduction in damage, and "if" needed, I can pop convolesence. I don't want for what WAR has as I don't believe a WAR should want what a PLD has.

If I did I would go LVL a WAR....maybe I just might.

Syn

[CrossSleet]

WAR here.
I dont quite understand the thing between PLD vs WAR. It seems everyone is trying to tell others that ''MY main is better tank''. What do you want to achieve by that? Would the game be better if only PLD be tank class? Would runs be more fun? Game more complete? I vote NO.

[CrossSleet]

This forums is most stupid i ever seen...TOPIC restrictions, POST restrictions and even long restrictions....i broken my post into 3...:

I love te option to pick your class and i think WAR after changes in 2.1 is not sad PLD replacement but NICE alternative now. Up till Turn4 i never had problems with any content as Tank. Of course i lack experience with harder content (ex primals and second coil) but to me it seems everything can be done with PLD/WAR.
I think nor PLD/PLD or WAR/WAR combo is best but actually PLD/WAR in every run.

[CrossSleet]

To be honest i dont like that SE is trying to make both of tanks the same. PLD has def boost? Let's give the same to WAR. It's worst possible path for this game. I'd like to see so different tank classes so choosing one would be dramatic change to playstyle and whole run style. If PLD is deffense then WAR should offense and self heal all the way. Like classic berserker he should gain from his wounds, Warrios should WANT to be hurt. Only thing i dont like in WAR is that he is actually kinda fuss and kittens now...self healing abilities dont suit warrior at all.
To make it short: both tank classess shuldnt want to be identical copy of other but should want to be as different as they can. The perfect option would be possibility to combo them - war giving buffs to PLD and PLD managin def boost for both of them so only WAR/PLD would be good combo.

[Reynhart]

In fact SE did give some "PLD concept" to WAR in 2.1 : Damage mitigation
They just realised that higher HP pool (and poor self-healing) can't compete when mobs keep hitting harder and harder.

As for the "PLD vs WAR", I don't think any tank is better than the other. I'm just a little disappointed that PLD get so little options. One full combo and several damage mitigation skills. Basically, PLD (30+) is just a more powerful GLA(30-) since they have the same kind of tools. Betwenn MRD and WAR, Rage is a brand new mechanic to the job

[Kyana]

To be honest i dont like that SE is trying to make both of tanks the same.

I don't like that either.
The original concept for WAR was cool, but I think the number of attacks with high spike dmg they implemented in fights, were a problem for it.
Spikes are even high for PLD and can be a problem if you don't stack VIT for that 450HP (that's why I asked how other tanks allocated their bonus stats).
WAR is fun to play and the only ability which requires some tuning is Holmgang.

When playing PLD though...
I sometimes stand there and want to do MORE than just spam 1 combo and wait for cooldowns.
There's so much time wasted where the only thing I can do is wait for the next attack to hit me.
And the boring Flash spam when AoE tanking...

PLD has more potential than that, and some minor changes would make a big difference already.
Let Shield "Swipe" really be a swipe attack, increase enmity for Flash and maybe Shield Lob and prevent interrupts when blocking while casting.
And the cross class skill system requires some work too. Half of them make no sense for the classes that can use them.


I don't want to decide between PLD and WAR because I like and play both classes.
I just want PLD to feel less "useless" by giving it a bit more utility and/or hate generation potential.

@ everyone: Thx for the interesting answers and opinions so far. ^^

[Xsavior]

I agree 110% Paladin's in Final Fantasy's past have always been able to cure themselves very well. I mean look back at most FF's, Paladins had Cure I, II, III, and even Cure IV. I think that Paladins should at least have Cure II. Even if the most it would cure depending on your stats is lets say 700-800 health, at least thats better than a measly 200-300 Cure that wouldnt even make a difference. Please, can we have Cure II?

[Synestr]

Agreed, the debate of who is better, as I said, is mute. Running PLD/WAR in a lot of end game content is preferred and really works out well as they compliment eachother. A times I tend to run into other tanks saying "I'm MT" be it PLD or WAR. I totally don't mind being OT if the situation calls for it. At times PLD is better OT, others War is better OT.

On the comment of adding something different or variety of class for tanking, why? Are PLD and WAR broken and cannot tank well any longer? Is the segregation between the two so vast there there is a gap(or gaps) that need to be filled by a new/different tanking class?

I can see the argument for "It is something different". For those that remember or played FFXI, PLD was the tank, WAR was a viable tank till about 30 when they started making the move to more of the DPS role, could still tank but not as effective as a PLD. Then NIN came along, was meant to be a support job, debuffs, dmg, etc.

((o.(o.o).o)) dem shadows tho... and can voke.... and can DPS... well we made it into a tank alternative. A darn good alternative too. Lot's of epic NIN's back in the day. Two tank roles. Both good at what they do, both useful in certain situations and areas. Together, again, a great compliment.

We don't have that in this game, an evasion tank. We have a mitigation tank and a soak tank. I think we are fine where we are in terms of tank jobs. Just make us a little more interesting with some expansion of skills.

Just my 2g

Syn

[Reynhart]

I agree 110% Paladin's in Final Fantasy's past have always been able to cure themselves very well. I mean look back at most FF's, Paladins had Cure I, II, III, and even Cure IV.

Another FFXI reference...
1st FF "Paladin" ever, Cecil, only had Cure I and II whereas Rosa can cast up to Cure IV.
As for the Knight in FFI and FF III, at best, they also reach Cure II when White Wizards had 4 levels.

And by the way, Cecil cured like crap in the first version of FFIV.

We can also assume that with the increase in level cap, more skills will be opened to cross-class or we'll end with more slots than skill choices.

[bokchoykn]

Paladin "wins" in exactly two areas (aside from aforementioned uberCD Hallowed Ground): having more CDs to stack together (virtually never a good idea anyways), and Stoneskin (extremely limited mid-fight applications). If you want to elaborate on what a "perfect PLD" does over a "perfect WAR", feel free.

Blocking with the Shield is a huge deal.