Duty Finder and troublesome players

[lxSch]

No, I explained to you why I think your method is selfish. The point you made there (beside your post making next to no sense, I can elaborate if you want) was that you leave after some time without saying a word as soon as you realize a player can't quite correct their own mistakes. To which I replied that I think this is selfish, because you don't really know what is causing this. It could be lack of experience, it could be wrong apporach, of course. But you don't even bother to try.

Also, you should start with yourself if you believe there is a problem with communication. For starters, try not to make up things, speak to the point and answer what I have actually written.

You can also stop insulting people by assuming they don't get a grasp on something you write. So far it seems more people have issues communicating with you.

I do not see a question anywhere there. I tend to think opinions are personal and should not be argued or discussed, so i can only answer that i have noted it.

[KiraVaela]

I do not see a question anywhere there. I tend to think opinions are personal and should not be argued or discussed, so i can only answer that i have noted it.

Please, stop picking up words that suits you while dodging anything relevant and either start a serious discussion with me on the matter or just leave it. This is public official forums, your opinions here are discussed and argued, so deal with it. If you are not ready for this or you want to keep it personal, then don't post at all or just pm me. If you expect everyone to just blindly nod to you, then you are in the wrong place. Don't just faceroll your keyboard making random statements only to blindly defend your nonsense afterwards just for the sake of it.

I'm sick of the amount of blablabla people are able to come up with here while the point is not being touched in the slightest.

[lxSch]

Please, stop picking up words that suits you while dodging anything relevant and either start a serious discussion with me on the matter or just leave it. This is public official forums, your opinions here are discussed and argued, so deal with it. If you are not ready for this or you want to keep it personal, then don't post at all or just pm me. If you expect everyone to just blindly nod to you, then you are in the wrong place. Don't just faceroll your keyboard making random statements only to blindly defend your nonsense afterwards just for the sake of it.

I'm sick of the amount of blablabla people are able to come up with here while the point is not being touched in the slightest.

If you wish to discuss something i ask not to call something nonsense, because otherwise there is nothing to discuss, isn't it?
Going back to your point in the first message:

I strongly disagree with your approach here if this is what you do.

Firstly, being in a group where someone is clearly hindering the group is not YOUR problem, but the problem of the group in the first place. It's not only you who is experiencing troubles, it's everyone. Maybe you are the only one experienced enough to notice it. In which case you should feel obligated to at least try to fix the problem by pointing it out politely, trying to communicate, or just something... By leaving without saying a word you solve YOUR problem and create even bigger problem for other 3 people in the group at the same time. That seems a bit selfish to me. The guy really could be just very new to this game and he might be able to correct his mistakes the second he realizes there are some (by someone else pointing it out, happened countless times to me). You never know.

Similar situation happened to me recently where tank in low level roulette would just play very badly, he would not response or try to do anything to keep aggro better. I tried few times to explain, it didn't work out, so I left because I clearly saw there is next to no chance of finishing the dungeon in time. But this is at least the absolute minimum you can do before leaving and I strongly believe this is the correct approach. If you see a problem, point it out politely after some time and you still get flamed for this, it's not your fault and you can leave with clear conscience.

Try to think over it.

I had no successful cases of players improving after advices given (i was practicing it for a long time before) - they always either start to argue and do the opposite or completely ignore.
Thus i changed my method to a different: i try to set the circumstances in the way people should notice the problem and try to solve it on their own, and it works well.
The best example is the 2nd chest in WP: if i tell people not to open it - they will open, if i mark it "target to ignore" - they will open it too. If i ask people not to speed run - they will either speed run or dismiss me. When i ask paladins to weave CoS between flashes - they always just ignore me (it is a class skill, every lv50 gla has it)
After months of failed attempts i simply stopped talking to people. I usually started my messages like this: "Xx could you please use ?Circle of Scorn? to keep the enmity better?" - i do not think it is too rude to ignore.

[KiraVaela]

If you wish to discuss something i ask not to call something nonsense, because otherwise there is nothing to discuss, isn't it?
Going back to your point in the first message:

I reserve the right to call something a nonsense when I see one, similarly how you feel entitled to think I cannot get a grasp on something you write, while in reality it could be just you failing to explain something correctly. Just a basic fair play. Anyways, the nonsens I'm reffering to is this:

"Would i solve the cause by explaining what to do in a particular certain situation? No, i will only make it worse because their problem will become much harder to notice."

Are you saying that it's harder for someone to notice there is a problem when you point it out? How is this not a nonsense?

I had no successful cases of players improving after advices given (i was practicing it for a long time before) - they always either start to argue and do the opposite or completely ignore.
Thus i changed my method to a different: i try to set the circumstances in the way people should notice the problem and try to solve it on their own, and it works well.
The best example is the 2nd chest in WP: if i tell people not to open it - they will open, if i mark it "target to ignore" - they will open it too. If i ask people not to speed run - they will either speed run or dismiss me. When i ask paladins to weave CoS between flashes - they always just ignore me (it is a class skill, every lv50 gla has it)
After months of failed attempts i simply stopped talking to people. I usually started my messages like this: "Xx could you please use ?Circle of Scorn? to keep the enmity better?" - i do not think it is too rude to ignore.

I find this hard to believe. On my server, I have run good amount of lower level dungeons with unexperienced players recently and as long as I'm not a dick about it, they listen to my advices and try to correct their mistakes. Of course you will run into bad players who will be flaming you for anything here and there. But I truly believe that if you are polite and nice to people, more often then not they will listen.

That said, if your method works well for you, I'm not going to try to convince you. It's fine. But you seem to try to convince everyone else their approach is wrong and that your method is the correct one. Which, frankly, is the issue I (and I believe others as well) have with you.

[Cedane]

Snip

She isn't going to listen. They are extremely stuck on their way and they will not stop. At the end of the day, the amount of passion and good will you and everyone else have is really nice. I do like your method!

[SummonerSenah]

“To help yourself, help others. Whatever good you do travels a circle and returns to you many times over- but remember, life isn't about what you get, it's about what you become.” - Dennis Gaskill

That's kind of what I try to do. If you help people when they need it, generally they will help you when you need it. If you help players become better, they can help other players become better. It benefits the whole community when you pay it forward.

[lxSch]

I reserve the right to call something a nonsense when I see one, similarly how you feel entitled to think I cannot get a grasp on something you write, while in reality it could be just you failing to explain something correctly. Just a basic fair play. Anyways, the nonsens I'm reffering to is this:

"Would i solve the cause by explaining what to do in a particular certain situation? No, i will only make it worse because their problem will become much harder to notice."

Are you saying that it's harder for someone to notice there is a problem when you point it out? How is this not a nonsense?



I find this hard to believe. On my server, I have run good amount of lower level dungeons with unexperienced players recently and as long as I'm not a dick about it, they listen to my advices and try to correct their mistakes. Of course you will run into bad players who will be flaming you for anything here and there. But I truly believe that if you are polite and nice to people, more often then not they will listen.

That said, if your method works well for you, I'm not going to try to convince you. It's fine. But you seem to try to convince everyone else their approach is wrong and that your method is the correct one. Which, frankly, is the issue I (and I believe others as well) have with you.

You mistake a symptom with the source: by curing the symptom source would remain and symptoms will appear again. If someone is doing something wrong telling them to stop/change that may solve the symptom (wrong behavior) temporary, but the reason for that would still remain untreated. While this is crucial is medicine, it is well applicable for many other aspects of life, such as human relations. Consider if someone doing/saying something - there is a reason behind it; dealing with the reason will remove the wrong behavior altogether.
I do not mean my method to be the only correct, viable or proper - i am merely sharing own experience. I do not mean other methods to be wrong - i believe there are several solutions for every situation.
I think the reason of our different experience is that i mostly do lv50+ content - people who reached lv50 often consider themselves experienced enough not to listen to others.

[KiraVaela]

snip

You expect your judgement to be correct in 100% of cases. You have absolutely no idea what is the source of people's behaviour. You don't even know who you are playing with in the first place. How on earth are you going to remove the source of people's wrong behaviour? You can't. The first step to correct wrong behaviour is for said person to realize there is something wrong with him/her (the more stubborn/wrongly brought up the person is, the harder he/she needs to crash to realize). You do this by pointing out symptoms. I'm not playing this game to bring up people, that is their parents job.

Also, you think I'm only playing like lv25-30 dungeons or what? Come on, it's not that hard to check my lodestone profile.

[lxSch]

You expect your judgement to be correct in 100% of cases. You have absolutely no idea what is the source of people's behaviour. You don't even know who you are playing with in the first place. How on earth are you going to remove the source of people's wrong behaviour? You can't. The first step to correct wrong behaviour is for said person to realize there is something wrong with him/her (the more stubborn/wrongly brought up the person is, the harder he/she needs to crash to realize). You do this by pointing out symptoms. I'm not playing this game to bring up people, that is their parents job.

Also, you think I'm only playing like lv25-30 dungeons or what? Come on, it's not that hard to check my lodestone profile.

I try to understand someone's motivation, and if needed - set the circumstances in the way people would see the issue. People tend to trust facts/experience more than words, so simply i try to show them the problem instead of describing it. I do not want to say my method is correct or the best one, i simply mentioned it as a working one. Also it is a fun method, because for people it looks like they are solving the problem themselves, without any pressure from team members.
I remember one fun run in toto-rak - new dps completely ignored adds, i ignored adds too and soon the whole room was filled with adds - dps started killing them to free some space (noone died that run). I think that time they learned why adds better to be killed, without me saying a word. Of course i could ask them to kill the adds beforehand, it is another way to deal with the issue.