Just realized - if you're a casual gamer, ideally....

[Corrderio]

I love how Hardcores believe they're entitled to exclusive stuff just for their "dedication".

[kanjitai]

one of my points is content can be hard but not require a huge timesink. Take relic weapons from 11. The reason they were so hard to get was because of how long it took. Not because of the work it took and don't even get me started about how players made it harder with lot rules and zone schedules.

[Corrderio]

one of my points is content can be hard but not require a huge timesink. Take relic weapons from 11. The reason they were so hard to get was because of how long it took. Not because of the work it took and don't even get me started about how players made it harder with lot rules and zone schedules.

I really hope they make dungeons/endgame events an actual challenge instead of regular mobs with crap rates. Salvage was the perfect cure for insomnia.

[SuzakuCMX]

Unfortunately FtP and increasing console games are where casuals are.

I thought WoW was casual and the "new" FFXI was casual.

Which both have fairly large populations.

...

[Rinsui]

"Three Path" Mid-High "Airship Fight" Or 6-4 - Hard x Hard x Really SE x Rage Quit (For some) then you had 8-1 - 8-4 before that you had 8-3

Dude, there is a difference between written and spoken language for a reason.
People can't see your hand signals and how you get all worked up in a forum >.>;

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

The difference is casual, casual hardcore (we stick around for years with limited playtime and may binge where time permits), hardcore, and dedicated hardcore (they stick around for years in a guild, only unsub from RL (aka death), massloads of drama, or GM banning will keep them away... EQ 1 is churning out expansions for somebodies and some folks aren't going to leave Vana'diel)

Content we can do with limited time with friends and game buddies can be more appealing than a single player game. Where in an hour, you can get something done (2 behests, 3~6 levequests, kill a couple dozen mobs, craft through a Netflix episode). Versus traveling 30 to 45 min (thank you anima! *gets clawed by a large chained creature, Yuna watches*), only to find that without that fourth party member, you can't do anything tonight or that someone died 20 min in and has to rerun that path (or us in to escort). And it might take a year or two to do all the things a player with more time can do in two or three months. And by then, there will be more to do (we hope) to keep us around.

[Naqaj]

I thought WoW was casual and the "new" FFXI was casual.

Which both have fairly large populations.

...

6 years ago, WoW increased the MMO playerbase 100fold simply by making the game more accessible then the competition.
F2P is basically doing exactly the same, removing yet another barrier of entry, though this time by means of affordability, not game design.
Console MMOs are removing the barrier of hardware complexity, though as the first attempts have shown, this makes it neccessary to adjust the basic game design to accomodate for the simpler controls. Once they get that nailed down, there's a huge untapped market to get into.

[Jennestia]

Quite honestly MMOs aren't for people who have no time to dedicate to them -- mostly because then they demand the game be suited for them which pretty much lessens the overall experience for everyone else because the developer would rather suit the majority (who have no time to play the game) than those who have a lot of time and want harder more longer lasting content.

I fall into the "Casual Gamer" crowd but I also have time to dedicate to the MMO. Though in the end, it's very hard to make an MMO that suits people who have no time and people who have all the time in the world. Ragnarok did pretty well with this with their WoE 2.0 system but most new MMOs just go the generic route and make everything easy and short lived.

[SuzakuCMX]

6 years ago, WoW increased the MMO playerbase 100fold simply by making the game more accessible then the competition.
F2P is basically doing exactly the same, removing yet another barrier of entry, though this time by means of affordability, not game design.
Console MMOs are removing the barrier of hardware complexity, though as the first attempts have shown, this makes it neccessary to adjust the basic game design to accomodate for the simpler controls. Once they get that nailed down, there's a huge untapped market to get into.

My point was that it's silly to say that casuals don't play subscription based games.

[geniusprime]

I believe that gamers are slowly coming to the realisation sub conciously that nothing is accomplished by playing games so spending excessive amount of hours to level up, get a rare item is purely a waste of time. We would like to beleive;the illusion is given, that we accomplished something but, that accomplishment is virtual. With that said, making games less of a timesink is very important.

Hardcore gaming is not profitable. There is not enough hardcore gamers to support MMOs and hardcore gamers cost more with regards to content, server usage etc. Casual gamers generally would require less content, place less load on the server and pay the same as a hardcore gamer. On a per user basis aiming the game to casuals simply makes financial sense.

One of the issues that plagued this game, is that everything seemed to be a timesink, even the simpliest operations. The initial game was plagued with not only game design timesinks but UI timesinks(intentional or not). At the end of the day, playing games is a past time, something folks do for fun. When this past time is not fun or it consumes too much time; and there is no real reward, folks leave.

There are many games that are casual but can be thoroughly enjoyed by the folks who consider themselves hardcore.