My Opinion on why WAR is the superior Tank.

[Kitru]

In reality their damage output over time is comparable

Math has been done, in game tests have been done, etc. etc. WAR *does* do significantly more damage than a PLD. The only time damage is a wash is when offtanking because SwO is *amazing*.

What I can't do as WAR is stun lock adds, or round up all 4 wave spumes and pop hallowed ground to take one for the team. So on Leviathan ex I prefer to go PLD. I feel like I have more control over the success of the fight. You can still handle those things without a PLD tank as a WAR, it's just easier with PLD.

PLD can't reduce the damage of Levi's regular AoEs (they're magical attacks, so they don't count on STR; SP simply reduces damage outright) nor can they interrupt the fear adds' casts (they're immune to stun while casting, but you can still KB/pull them with Holmgang and it interrupts them) so it's not as if PLD is outright better than WAR (you don't have both tanks on the same target, so the "one of each" argument is only a factor as far as LB is concerned), but a WAR can survive the 4 wave spumes by using Holmgang as easily as a PLD can; it just requires a quick reaction by the healers.

[Danko]

Math has been done, in game tests have been done, etc. etc. WAR *does* do significantly more damage than a PLD. The only time damage is a wash is when offtanking because SwO is *amazing*.

Perhaps if OT was the only time a PLD is using sword oath. But there are certainly times during MT phases where SwO is safe and appropriate. WAR does not do *significantly*more damage than PLD over time. I'd still give WAR the edge, but "comparable" is an accurate description.

so it's not as if PLD is outright better than WAR (you don't have both tanks on the same target, so the "one of each" argument is only a factor as far as LB is concerned), but a WAR can survive the 4 wave spumes by using Holmgang as easily as a PLD can; it just requires a quick reaction by the healers

Exactly. Which is why I said This:

You can still handle those things without a PLD tank as a WAR, it's just easier with PLD.

[Kitru]

Perhaps if OT was the only time a PLD is using sword oath. But there are certainly times during MT phases where SwO is safe and appropriate.

And those are the same times that it's appropriate for a WAR to drop out of Defiance. WAR actually has an advantage in rapid stance swapping scenarios since Defiance is off-GCD whereas SwO/ShO are on.

WAR has an explicit and significant DPS advantage, in excess of at least 10% and, in my experience, often much more.

[Megido]

And those are the same times that it's appropriate for a WAR to drop out of Defiance. WAR actually has an advantage in rapid stance swapping scenarios since Defiance is off-GCD whereas SwO/ShO are on.

WAR has an explicit and significant DPS advantage, in excess of at least 10% and, in my experience, often much more.

You will not be gaining wrath stacks when dropping out of defiance. This can be a real detriment to your tanking. Reapplying defiance also leaves you with a 75% hp pool, whereas pld does not have that issue. Pld can easily switch these two buffs and not lose anything.

But the advantage for warrior lies in the burst. A paladin can never catch up to you in berserk and unchained, critting your inner beast for 1k. We can for instance use maim on the boss and then storms eye on an add or conflag and get some very respectable damage going while popping cooldowns off gcd. Also, mercy strike. And with no enmity modifier on our debuff chains there isnt any danger of taking aggro while putting all of our crits and determinations to use.

[Danko]

And those are the same times that it's appropriate for a WAR to drop out of Defiance. WAR actually has an advantage in rapid stance swapping scenarios since Defiance is off-GCD whereas SwO/ShO are on.

This is true, but then you also have to consider that WAR sacrifices both its Crit rate buff from wrath stacks and Inner beast to drop defiance. Conversely, PLD sacrifices nothing at all and gains sword oath buffs.

But lets not misunderstand each other, I'm neither making an argument for or against either tank job. I consider myself a WAR main and prefer WAR's style of damage. I find their burst phase damage to be more useful at key points of the fight.

But I also have PLD for times where it's kit has advantages. But I agree, iIt's not NEEDED per se, WAR can get it all done.

[Kimura410]

This is true, but then you also have to consider that WAR sacrifices both its Crit rate buff from wrath stacks and Inner beast to drop defiance. Conversely, PLD sacrifices nothing at all and gains sword oath buffs.

But lets not misunderstand each other, I'm neither making an argument for or against either tank job. I consider myself a WAR main and prefer WAR's style of damage. I find their burst phase damage to be more useful at key points of the fight.

But I also have PLD for times where it's kit has advantages. But I agree, iIt's not NEEDED per se, WAR can get it all done.

Same could be said for warrior. not needed. this discussion could be brought up 100 more times, but the answer will always be: they're both good in different ways. neither is better or worse. a combo of both is best in 8 man groups