[Tank Shortage] Lv50 War/lv38 PLD resigning from ever using Duty Finder

[Shug]

I've been in those dungeons on both those jobs, what everyone was asking of you in every one of those situations is not hard to do, nor should a whm be telling aoe dps not to aoe fighting 3 mobs. I'm trying to figure out from what you've said why you couldn't/wouldn't handle it, idk best I can come up with is not everyone's cut out for tanking.

But it really, really, really looks like there's another side to the story and the people you had these bad experiences with, if they read this, would tell similar bad experiences of a tank that just didn't keep up like most other tanks in those same situations.

Doesn't matter how many times you've done it, if OP doesn't want to tank that way, they don't have to. If you want to SR, as it has been said 1000 times, don't use DF.

[Shug]

1:lob pull - waste of gcd, i run in and flash, so healer can start healing sooner (doing so due to my healer perspective experience), i only lob pull patrols since i cannot come close in that case.

3:rotating targets - most pulls have 3-4 mobs, if people go full aoe - i cannot hold the threat back, if they do not use full aoe - i don't see a reason to cycle targets, flash is enough to keep the healer safe and dps should be attacking 1 target. But i try to rotate targets when there are 2 different mobs being focused, in the same order as you said + running after the loose add.


Well, I tried to defend you. Should've read further. Lob pull groups, provoke patrols since you can use if farther than shield lob and it won't pull a group, and definatly rotate mobs. I'm leveling my warrior and don't like DF cause of reasons you stated, but man, I know the basics.

[reckless76]

1:lob pull - waste of gcd, i run in and flash, so healer can start healing sooner (doing so due to my healer perspective experience), i only lob pull patrols since i cannot come close in that case.

How is a Shield Lob pull a waste? Normally, mobs are spread out a bit. You aren't going to hit them all with a flash before you gather them. So a lob while you are running to them, by the time your GCD is back up, the mobs are much closer together and you can hit them all with a flash, run circles around them to get them nice and stacked and positioned, flash, flash, combo. So really, I take the opposite opinion as you. Not lobbing while you are closing on the mobs is a wasted opportunity to get a little extra aggro on the mob you should be marking with a 1.

[lxSch]

How is a Shield Lob pull a waste? Normally, mobs are spread out a bit. You aren't going to hit them all with a flash before you gather them. So a lob while you are running to them, by the time your GCD is back up, the mobs are much closer together and you can hit them all with a flash, run circles around them to get them nice and stacked and positioned, flash, flash, combo. So really, I take the opposite opinion as you. Not lobbing while you are closing on the mobs is a wasted opportunity to get a little extra aggro on the mob you should be marking with a 1.

Those were my words, but he didn't take them into "quote" so it looked like his.
Let me state my reasons behind not using shield lob/tomahawk to pull.
1. Many healers in DF start to heal or Eye4Eye after they see i used the "aggro skill" (being the shield lob or tomahawk), so i have to flash asap or mobs will run after the healer, and sometimes impatient dps don't wait either. But mobs have a large aggro radius, so they start to gather when they see me (must run in front of them, not from behind) and i can flash them asap if i didn't use lob/toma before.
2. I often do multi-pulls and i need regen/fairy on me to take a lot of stress from the healer. If i multi-pull mobs using the lob/toma - healer cannot touch me until i stop, but this way i will be at a very low life when i finally stop.
Those are two very useful things i learned, and it's strange not many people knows about this.
Regarding pulling with Provoke: i need it to take a mob from the healer, i won't waste it just to speed up a bit.

[lxSch]

An update to the topic (going to update it until i keep playing).
Guildmate was asking if anyone wants a cutters cry run, some time later he said he reported someone and is going to quit the free company - i thought it may be related to him using DF for the cutters cry, so i started a conversation. He said someone raged at him for being killed by adds. I asked if he needs help doing any dungeon and he named the stone vigil, so we queued as PLD and SCH. When we enter i found out he is:
- decently geared;
- not using shield or sword oath;
- not using flash;
- not marking targets;
- using LB when bar is full (thought PLD LB is damage);
- not knowing how to pull;
- not knowing how to deal with patrols;
- not knowing the dungeon;
- not turning bosses away from the team.
Well, it was his first class (lv44), just like everyone had.
Those who played FFXIV these days must know about the minor lag issue in dungeons. What i found out is:
- i dont see people health bars until 2-3s later, but regen/fairy works well for both healers;
- 1st boss - dodging his breath is impossible due to delay, so i healed through it;
- 2nd boss - clicking cannons is impossible, so i just healed through it;
- 3rd boss - dodging his large blue aoe is impossible due to lag, so i just stoneskin + adloquium self and healed through it.
We finished the run with 3 wipes (1 - bad pull, 2 - a bit wrong tactic at the 3rd boss).
When we finished other two dps called it SV [Hard Mode] and said gj and gz (guildmate finally finished it for the main story).
There were two things ever told to the tanker (by dps):
- face the boss away;
- let dragoon use lb.
This is the FFXIV i played back in january/february and patient and mature community.

But now, my recent DF experience (as a healer).
Titan normal:
- newbie tanker who kept running all across the stage;
- newbie mage who got knocked out of stage at the start;
- newbie dragoon who didn't know target priority.
So my pet is healing the team (i believe fairy can heal everything up until lv41), but tanker keeps yelling i should heal only and not dps. I get gaoled and heart spawns - dragoon focuses on gaol instead of heart (we are 1 dps short and my pet is healing everyone, why free dot class >.<). Then dragoon gets gaoled and starts yelling at me i should free him (i placed dots lol and he got impatient). Of course we pass it and i ignored every their advice, and of course no comms and or any other words, only being yelled at.

Amdagor keep:
- i50-i60 tanker;
- i80 dps.
Tanker sees me in CS and starts yelling it does not make me heal better and i must stop using it, dps says it makes my heal 50% weaker and i MUST stop using it - i ignore those advices and keep dpsing. Wall boss, tanker gets out of stage - we finish it without him. Last boss - people ignore balls and stand in nuke, but we pass it. Of course silence and no comms or any words, again only yelled at.

Halatali HM, new dps whom i revived 6 times so far, finally i get killed at the last boss 3rd try and that dps saying - it's a fail healer wiped us, he walked in aoe while we dodged it (i said i lag and could not get out of it sooner) - we pass it on the next try, again no words or comms, only yelled at.

Story dungeon, allagan PLD and darklight WAR who kept tutoring that PLD whole run - i haven't seen such a patient player for a while, really i wanted to say something about his patience when we finished the run.

Brayflox HM - 90k at 30% last boss, went to forums.

I guess there was a large base of players who quit playing ffxiv until the update, but now they all are here, and now it looks like a completely different game to me (they are highly unskilled too i have to add, so playing with them is quite difficult since i have to carry them).
Solo player content takes 2-3 weeks to finish, then all that remain is duty finder, and i see a lot of people scared of using it again due to commonly rude people there. I see in guild chat every day someone saying he reported someone after a dungeon attempt.

[Aktlys]

As an old school MMO player that been around since Ultima Online, I’d say that 90% of the people I meet on the duty finder don’t know how to play their class and don’t either understand the other classes they are playing with.

Mostly it is the DPS that screw over parties since they “gotta go fast” after having waited for 20 minutes on a duty.

DPS also has this insane tendency to do their weak AoE that hardly dose any damage and screw up hate. The AoE in FFXIV is intended for really trashy mobs or to be done by many AoE classes at the same time.

AoE is on the other hand really good when you are in a full party, when several people are doing AoE, it actually has an impact.

But is would say that people really seem to have issuers when it comes to target players and mobs, they seem to be unable to cycle.

This seem to be especially evident with healers, they then to only focus on you and are unable to sleep and do DPS.

[Vanwa]

My 1st toon was a gladiator and I got really discouraged during my first dungeon. I kept losing ago and didn't know anything about marking (lancer was really wanting stuff marked and started doing it himself). The group was really nice and helpful which made it worse. I felt bad that I kept messing up for people that were really nice. So I switched to pugilist. I loved it. Made it all the way to 22. Then I got the sword and board bug back. I LOVE playing that type of class. So I changed servers, started a gladiator again, and haven't looked back.

[Vanwa]

I'm in my early 30's taking my time and learning the class (and tinkering with other classes to learn what they do and how they do it). I think the main thing that a lot of people playing a tank class forgets is that their job isn't to kill anything. Its simply to hold attention. Once I came to terms with that, its been way more enjoyable (and much more successful). I'm over what others think and ignore other classes demanding I do things a certain, especially the dps who wants to rush through everything and probably won't be around in a couple of weeks anyway because they burned through the whole game in less then a month.

Don't get me wrong. If your polite and asking for help or wanting me to do something a certain way because that's what your used to or will help you kill or heal better, I'm all ears. In the end though, I'm learning to play my class. I know my class and I know my play style and, working together, I'm learning what works best to help other classes.

[Wadoka]

I tell you, I am a main PLD and I am a sloooow casual leveler. I played from October to January, lots of weekend nights, a couple of hours here, a couple of hours there, to get to L50.

And... I still haven't finished the pre-2.2 main story. I am sitting on Castrum Meridianum and the Praetorium... because I just can't stand the idea of taking those on, through Duty Finder.

(I've watched a *lot* of game film; especially on CM, and even on "one-tank" CM runs. That's a LOTTA work for the Tank )

I am so wary of trying to finish the main story as a PLD, I'm running up my CNJ/WHM levels, thinking about finishing the quest line as a Healer - because it's sooo much easier and lower-pressure.

(Enter our healer partners crying "No it's not!" stage left!)

[jamesrandal]

You wanna know one reason why people are are like that in your first pic? that timer on the right hand side tick tocking away. makes people fill the need to rush. But yeah, some people are just like that regardless