Your thoughts on the updated 2.2 news

[Naunet]

Its not "Eastern game developers".

Would you prefer some of the Western methods instead, such as needing to DESTROY the items you're using for vanity?

Uhm.

Rift, western MMO. Doesn't destroy vanity items; instead has separate wardrobe slots you equip your gear into to override the look of your actual gear. LotRO as well. WoW doesn't destroy your gear...

TERA, eastern MMO. Destroys an armor piece to use as a template to re-skin your existing armor. This is how it works in Aion, as well.

[Vanguard319]

meh, I'm just happy to know that the main story will have voice acting in this patch.

[BlueMage]

Uhm.

Rift, western MMO. Doesn't destroy vanity items; instead has separate wardrobe slots you equip your gear into to override the look of your actual gear. LotRO as well. WoW doesn't destroy your gear...

TERA, eastern MMO. Destroys an armor piece to use as a template to re-skin your existing armor. This is how it works in Aion, as well.

GW2, Western development team. Transmutation stones (the vanity system for that game) destroy items. So does that mean suddenly all western developers are awful, since your little "If I can think of a bad example, it means I can demonize a whole ethnicity." rule is in effect?

You characterized "western methods" as "needing to DESTROY the items you're using for vanity", when this is far more common in eastern MMOs. I wasn't demonizing anything or anyone, simply countering your assertion. What the hell, man?

He asked why eastern developers are make players jump through hoops instead of just having vanity tabs like western developers. Not all western developers use vanity tabs, and like I said "SOME" (key word, since reading is your weak point and you're just out to put words in people's mouths and start fights) western developers use methods even worse than XIV's glamour system, such as needing to destroy two items for vanity. But hey, just interject without reading and start attacking and putting words in people's mouths, "dudebro".

Sorry for not agreeing that all eastern devs are backwards and need to be "enlightened" like westerners. I'll never say anything about a western dev again or anything good about an eastern dev. So sorry! My insolence should not go unpunished!

Funny how XIV uses an appearance system pretty similar to WoW, the most popular Western MMO, but apparently SE are "backwards eastern game developers." I take issue with you painting the picture as an eastern developer vs western developer issue, when there are multiple western developers with vanity systems equally "backwards/terrible" or even worse than XIV's.

[Naunet]

GW2, Western development team. Transmutation stones (the vanity system for that game) destroy items. So does that mean suddenly all western developers are awful, since your little "If I can think of a bad example, it means I can demonize a whole ethnicity." rule is in effect?

You characterized "western methods" as "needing to DESTROY the items you're using for vanity", when this is far more common in eastern MMOs. I wasn't demonizing anything or anyone, simply countering your assertion. What the hell, man?

[edit] @the above: Good lord, you need to calm down.

[TheRogueX]

GW2, Western development team. Transmutation stones (the vanity system for that game) destroy items. So does that mean suddenly all western developers are awful, since your little "If I can think of a bad example, it means I can demonize a whole ethnicity." rule is in effect?

1) GW2 had a western development team but may very well have been expected by NCSoft to do certain things certain ways. NCSoft is a really strict master.

2) We were not "demonizing a whole ethnicity," just pointing out differences in style between developers from the East and West. If I pointed out that Japanese houses tend to have paper thin walls (if not walls made out of actual paper) while Western houses tend to have thicker walls, would that be demonizing Japanese society?

[XanderOlivieri]

I'm loving these images. This one from the Developer's Blog and I hadn't seen it around the forums yet.

Can't really identify the classes well, but based on weapon placement and looks, First one with the fishnet stockings is Thaumaturge/Blackmage/Lancer/Dragoon...the angle is killing me but based on the end, I can narrow it to those two sets, though money is on Mage...Suit is awesome for the ladies, hope its Vanity though...

Second is Gladiator/Paladin. Looks like a swashbuckling pirate~

Third, Conjuerer/White Mage...Kinda plain jane there.

Fourth has got to be Archer/Bard. So Middle East. Much love. Such wow. 2.2

[Rhas]

This is like when people say stuff like "those that want to grind stuff for months have no life and still live in their parents basement."

I agree that the leveling in this game is far too fast, but I also don't need to grind the same content for years to get a relic to feel a sense of accomplishment. Making sweeping generalizations like that about people is just stupid.

But its not any less accurate. The MMO market today is pretty much what WoW made of it and the mentality Blizzard instilled into them. Instant gratification. If you couldn't get something done in 15-20 minutes with some short term goals like upgrading equipment, it was mostly too much effort. It was Blizzards solution to competing with older MMO's like EQ, Asherons Call and other such older MMOs. Which started the I want it and I want it now crowd into the MMO market.

IMO it isn't the people so much as the mentality of instant gratification the Blizzard instilled into its new MMO which eventually forced most every other MMO to follow suite in some form or another. Why? People got used to having everything instantly instead of a nice slower journey over time. Then those people started trying out new upcoming MMO and complained everything wasn't like WoW and started comparing it to WoW and eventually most every company 'listened' to the crowd and started designing around it. After all 10.. 12... 14 million + people just couldn't be wrong... could they?

Again.. I blame the company more than I blame the people. People grew up with WoW as their first MMO after all and were weened into it by Blizzard.

I mean just look to how FFXI started and compare it to how it is now. Even they eventually bowed to the mentality and made the game easier.

[Gilthas]

Again.. I blame the company more than I blame the people. People grew up with WoW as their first MMO after all and were weened into it by Blizzard.

You know, it's possible that people just feel like it's more fun to get several rewards with the same effort that it took to get a single reward in a game like FFXI.

I mean, what exactly is the best timeframe to get a reward and have it be worth something? I did FFXI's endgame for 3 years. Never got my Riddle or my E Body (and we camped the **** out of them, saw 4 of each drop and left the game when I was next in line to get them). Best drop I got was the Haidate, and that happened only after SE fixed Ulli. If I had to choose between that and the system currently place in FFXIV, I'm sorry, but I'd rather get stuff regularly, more so if it means that I'll be playing new content regularly to get them.

[Rhas]

You know, it's possible that people just feel like it's more fun to get several rewards with the same effort that it took to get a single reward in a game like FFXI.

I mean, what exactly is the best timeframe to get a reward and have it be worth something? I did FFXI's endgame for 3 years. Never got my Riddle or my E Body (and we camped the **** out of them, saw 4 of each drop and left the game when I was next in line to get them). Best drop I got was the Haidate, and that happened only after SE fixed Ulli. If I had to choose between that and the system currently place in FFXIV, I'm sorry, but I'd rather get stuff regularly, more so if it means that I'll be playing new content regularly to get them.

You know I never saw most of the equipment either.. and I played XI for 6+ years

I would still honestly like it somewhere more in between the old school and the current 'styles'. I'd like to see 1 to 50 in maybe a month or two, instead of a year + or 1 to 10 days. While I was no fan of the 1% or .1% chance to get an item, I would like to see it more of a 25-33% chance to get an item you can actually use instead of a 100% chance of an item (that you may not even be able to equip).

And the other side of your same coin is maybe some people preferred it more the older way Everyone has their own tastes and preferences

[Naunet]

People got used to having everything instantly instead of a nice slower journey over time.

I'm really confused by your definition of "instantly". I can't recall getting anything instantly in WoW. Leveling? While there's the refer-a-friend program with its unique perks, the game still has leveling. They streamlined the lower levels a bit because 90 levels is an awful lot, but it's certainly not instant. Downing bosses? There are easy bosses and there are face-smashingly difficult bosses that take the average group a great deal of time to surmount. Gear? No, that took first the ability to down the boss, then winning the RNG lottery - or for some slots, getting enough points to buy an item from a vendor, and in the case of raids you had to work with the weekly lockout (and weekly point caps outside of those). Achievements? No, there are a great deal of achievements that take a ridiculous amount of time and effort to obtain. Professions? Admittedly not as complex to level as XIV, but they do take some time, especially if you're not just tossing a bunch of gold to buy up all the mats you need to speed level something on a new alt.