Bonus stats are pointless

[Kitru]

A better idea would have been for the points to be allocated to off stats, so determination, crit rate, skill/spell speed, parry and possibly Piety aswell.

This is an awesome idea, though they'd need to crank the point allocation budget up from 30 if they're doing this. 30 second stat points means next to nothing at the end game (possibly make it something like 80 and cap the number you can dump into a single secondary stat to 40 so that it's noticeable and not predetermined, since tanks would dump everything into parry).

[Mcshiggs]

First off, farming 10k GC seals is not "putting in a little time". That takes a long time.

Second, this idea that I can't play a class to its fullest LITERALLY only applies to SCH/SMN. I don't have to choose between SCH or BLM, WHM or PLD, BRD or MNK. I can play all of those classes at the same time to their fullest ability for all content in the game...which I do.

.It only applies to them for now, when they release more jobs, it will hit every class, and 10k tomes is easy, so let me educate you real quick, do you daily duty roulettes, there's a couple thousand right there, do a few hq supply and provisioning turn ins, each company only wants certain things, so spend two hours gathering, you are set for the week, maybe 2, do GC leves, do some fates, I can get 10 seals in a few hours, now if 3-4 hours per week is too much for you, then that's just you not willing to put in yes a LITTLE time to reset your points, and I didn't say that I play a summoner with 15 less int, I said if you have 15 less int, you are still playing the summoner, if you can't play it with 15 less int, then that is in your head, and nothing on these forums will be able to help you with that. You also say SCH, BLM, WHM, BLD, BRD, and MNK are classes, those are jobs, so maybe that is where your disconnect is, the attribute points are tied to the class, arcanist, not the job, scholar and summoner, and you do get bonus points for the jobs, look at your stats before and after you equip your job stone, so the ones you set are extra, so do us all a favor, either learn to farm seals or be content with being a non min/max summoner/scholar.

[ImDingDing]

The ability points currently are useless. If your a black mage and NOT putting your points into INT, something is wrong with you..

Now if they wanted to make them more useful, while people will probably bite my head off for saying this, BUT.. instead of having those points be per job/class, be just the 30 points per character, regardless of job/class. So if you put 30 points in INT because you were a black mage, then wanted to play as a warrior, you don't get a new 30 points to put somewhere, they are just placed into INT, that's it.

In this case people like me (all DoW/M 50) will just put 30 in VIT, still quite pointless.

[Ticklefairy]

snip

I understand the difference between class and job. If I use the words interchangeably, though it's erroneous, because it's a habit from other games and because the classes don't freaking matter unless you're doing something nifty like MRD dps so when someone said "class" i immediately think "job" anyway. I have no disconnect on the concept of Bonus stats. Also don't say "let me educate you". Your tone is completely condescending and that's unnecessary.

You're citing ways for me to get 10k tomes in a week. I'm not saying that changing from one job to the other for a longer period of time is hard...I'm saying that if a group in PF wants a SCH and I'm SMN specced I have to go spend 10k. I finish that group and another group wants me back on SMN. What do I do? Spend 10k more seals. I cannot freely change between the two jobs. But I CAN change to WHM or MNK or DRG or ANY OF THE OTHER JOBS absolutely freely.

[Ticklefairy]

And you didn't answer my question Mcshiggs. I already explained why 15 primary stats is a lot. You said you don't care...so why on Earth are you defending the bonus stat system? Why don't you want it to go away? Because right now you seem to just argue that it doesn't need to be changed because it doesn't need to be changed. But if you don't care about stats and playing effectively then what do you care if they just take the bonus stat system out?

[Mcshiggs]

And you didn't answer my question Mcshiggs. I already explained why 15 primary stats is a lot. You said you don't care...so why on Earth are you defending the bonus stat system? Why don't you want it to go away? Because right now you seem to just argue that it doesn't need to be changed because it doesn't need to be changed. But if you don't care about stats and playing effectively then what do you care if they just take the bonus stat system out?

I don't think it needs to be changed, because they give you a way to reset your stats, the only thing I would like changed is that they make the Hymns sellable, so those of us that don't mind putting in a little time can sell them to those that think a little farming is too hard or for some reason you think you are entitled to a free stat reset, just because that's the way you think it should be. I know that 15 can make a difference, so that's why I have plenty of hymns saved up in case I need them. The reason they share the stats is because they are both on the arcanist class, and the points go to the class, the reason you can swap between WHM and DRG or ANY OF THE OTHER JOBS, is because they are based on separate classes, they will be adding more jobs in the future to branch off of the existing classes, you say you understand this system, but you keep comparing a class with two jobs to classes that currently only have one, which leads me to believe you either don't understand the system like you say you do, or my original thought, you want everything handed to you because you don't think it should take any work to be able to min/max any job, while you are at it, why don't you go on about how you leveled a job to 50, why should you now have to go through the process of gearing it, or leveling up other classes for cross class skills, or maybe even you leveled, you watched the you tube videos so you "know" the fights, so you are just entitled to any Twintania drops because according to your idea of the armory system, you should be able to switch freely to any job and be able to have max stats without putting any time into it? Also what are you doing each week that requires max stats on multiple jobs, if you run turn 1 on scholar, turn 2 on summoner, then turn 4 on scholar again, and you can do that, guess what, you can do without the 15 extra mind for turn 1, but I doubt you bounce back and forth for every turn, I think it's just something there for you to complain about.

About the "Let me educate you," since that is too harsh for you which would you prefer? Let me drop some knowledge on you, Let me tell you what's up, Here is the 411, Let me give you some information you are currently lacking, Allow me to impart some of my genius upon the masses, Please read on to benefit from the public service I provide to inform the otherwise uninformed, or maybe even You are welcome in advance for the plethora of information you are about to be ambushed by? Please let me know, I would enjoy being able to go forward educating the people in a more palatable manner so my words can be sang from the mountain tops and freely shared by the masses.

[Ticklefairy]

snip

Being condescending is unnecessary and rude.

I understand how the system works...I get it. I think that it needs to be changed. Just because they set up the system a certain way doesn't mean it can't be improved for the better.

If you think it's ok to have to choose our stats for ACN and thus have to farm tomes for stat changes then why don't we just make the attributes character based? So that whenever you want to play a different job with different needs you can farm 10k seals to switch it up? I mean, that'd be cool by you, right? As long as that was the system in place and SE intended it to be that way that'd be cool right?

Of course not. It'd be stupid. People would make separate characters for separate class roles like any other MMO and the whole Job switching system would be annoying and disadvantageous.

[Ticklefairy]

The ENTIRE POINT of the Job system as it is is that you can have one character and level/use all of the jobs/classes in the game on that one character. You can progress as a WHM, switch to a WAR and progress...and so on.

So when they put in something like this attribute system and have it be class based, but there are two jobs with opposing stat needs on that one class, it then makes it cumbersome to switch between the two if you want to be effective at them. So most people choose one and don't play the other. Right now that's only one job you have to go without (SMN or SCH) but it's still for a really stupid reason. And this'll only get worse as they add more classes and jobs and we have to make more choices. This will lead to having to have 2 or more characters on a server just so you can play as all the different jobs in the game. It's a cumbersome system for no benefit.

[Ticklefairy]

Which brings me back to what I said before. You STILL have not answered my question.

What do you LIKE about the bonus attribute system? Why do you want it to stay and what do you think it adds to the game in a positive way? Thus far all you have argued is that it doesn't need to be changed because anyone can waste some time farming 10000 seals every time they want to switch. That isn't positive, that's cumbersome. But even if you disagree with it being cumbersome...do you get enjoyment out of it? What is in the bonus attribute system for you? Why do you like it so much?

[Mcshiggs]

The system makes people make a choice, like the devs intended for it to do, you can choose to be the best at one job per class, or do a little work so you can be the best at both, and you still haven't said how it is impossible to play a job without max stats, you keep saying that if you don't have max stats, then the game keeps you from playing that job, that is not the game, that is all in your head, I don't need max mind to heal primals, so if my stats are shifted to int, and someone needs me to heal, I can still go scholar, and get the job done without swapping stats, however if someone wants me to heal turn 4, I would go ahead and swap my stats, that being said, if I healed turn 4 that week, that means I wouldn't be doing that on summoner, so wow, that is using one hymn that week. I look forward to seeing more jobs per class, making more people make choices, with a game full of people complaining about lack of choice, this is actually one of the only choices you can make right now, but the same people that complain about not being able to make choices are complaining about having to make a choice. Is what I am about to do worth that 10k seals? If it is then swap the points, if it's not, then don't, make a choice for your character. If you want to just do two characters on one server to avoid this, guess what, they allow you to do that, it is yet another choice you can make.

Another thing I enjoy about it is how much it pisses people like you off, they have already said in interviews why the system is the way it is, and that is the way it is going to stay. If they ever do change it because a new thread pops up each week whining that it does need to be changed because, "It's stupid, I don't like it" why would they stop with this, next thing you know we will be playing XI with better graphics.

You can also edit your posts, to add more to them, unless your goal is to bump your post count, if it is keep going, I look forward to you hitting your daily limit to keep you posting again for 24 hours.