New dungeons confirmed i55?

[Musashidon]

snip

what do you mean get good enough gear to eat mountain buster or gear to break heart? the ilvl requirement means you can take mountain buster (as long as you don't sugar coat your ilvl wearing worthless gear to meet it is different) the ilvl requirement also means you have enough dps to break heart definitly if you pf it and 5 dps and not 2 tank it.

i am merely saying in the end people say ilvl is a problem but when it comes to it the problem is skill and not being able to do what is needed to beat it, i said in another thread the better gear you have the less skill you need, i have been doing titan hm alot as a i90 tank and man is it tons easier then when i was i70 when i had 5k hp instead of nearly 7 now i just press 1 2 3 and take every bomb and every weight of the land and laugh at it while not trying because i am way over geared. which has been my point the this whole thread the ilvl is based on skill not gear.

also depends what you mean learned through experience, you can experience a battle 100 times as i said already but without the skill you will never beat it, exp does not =skill experience only tells you what will happen next skill decides if you pass what happens next.

snip

that is my point everyone wants players to beat it on their first try. by doing them? so you're saying it takes seeing something happen alot to know it's coming? like i said we know when bombs drop in titan once you experence it all it takes is skill or getting more skill to do it, has nothing to do with experience.

You must be magic or something, you became skilled at something without any experience doing it. Maybe you should write a book to explain your theory since clearly everybody else in here doesn't understand you. I'm sorry but saying you are skilled at something and that it didn't take experience to become skilled at it is just pure balony. Perhaps you should reconsider your understanding of the word experienced and then get back to us.. or you know.. go write your book.

how so? i did do it once i experienced the bombs i knew how to do it. then it just took skill (less skill in a sense then knowing a full rotation) to move to the last bombs so the first ones could explode and i can move to the first ones so i take no damage. so in the end experience taught me what to do and skill helped me pull it off.

I have to agree with this guy. The minimum iLevel for both Titan Hard and Titan Extreme is far too low. At the minimum(if the entire party is), you will barely be able to break the heart in time and tanks cannot take a Mountain Buster simply because they lack the HP without expert staggering of their cooldowns. Basically fighting at minimum makes the fights hard as shit.

that is how all dungeons go the less gear you have the more prepared you have to be and skill you need to beat it. which is why people want higher ilvls why try when you can faceroll it.

You're missing my point entirely, you were not born skilled at playing ffxiv. You became skilled at playing ffxiv because you played a lot of content and learned how the game works. The thing that seems to be going over your head is that you need to experience things to become skilled at something, the 2 words a pretty much interchangeable. You can apply that to pretty much any situation, real life and video game. Bruce Lee didn't become a kung-fu master by being born a skilled at kung-fu, he became a kung-fu master because he practiced like hell until he had enough experience to become one.

that is where you are wrong, i will never be good at kung fu (using you example) no matter how long i try i will never have the skill or ability to do it i just won't, experence shows you what you need to do while skill pulls it off. meaning experience is not skill because unlimited experience will never give you the skill.
practice makes perfect its called honing your skills for a reason not honing you experience.

Having the ilvl requirement to do it does mean it's possible but let's be real only like one percent of the population is good enough to do that. Everyone else definitely needs the gear.

It's both. Skill and gear goes hand in hand. When you have less skills than the elites, then gear will definitely help you. That's why players want the ilvl to be bumped up.


You might not beat it in 100 tries but I'm sure most players will leave being a better player. Experience will help you anticipate better and make your timing better through repetition.


It's not about wanting to beat it first time. You can prepare as much as you like and still fail over and over. It's more about having a real chance to beat say Titan.

this is all true, now i will say i am not saying do titan or be forced to do titan at the lowest ilvl i am merely saying it is possible.( or any content for that matter at the bare minimum)
now i will also the reason why experience is not skill is because as you said the more you experience it the more you anticipate things and get timing better but in the end is that not skill? there are players that do titan alot and never get better at timing or anticipating what is going to happen would you say they are just not experiencing the content when they are? when in fact they just aren't getting better or more skill?

It's not about wanting to beat it first time. You can prepare as much as you like and still fail over and over. It's more about having a real chance to beat say Titan. We all been in groups where we realize it's not going to work no matter what.

i have infact been in a group where i knew we would not beat it, but i did not blame gear because i know all to well it was the fact that everyone was taking wotl's and landed and by heart phase we had 2 dps 1 healer and the tank. or the fact that the dps didn't use heavy thrust (drg) monks never positions and attacked in 1 spot smns didn't even try to keep dots up at all times simply spamed ruin and use dots now and then things that show it was the players fault and not the gears fault.

Lol so whats the point of gearing? we have ilvl 90 atm, yet people are claiming they can beat titan at ilvl 67( BS =D ). Next patch we're gonna go for ilvl 100-110. I guess this is all useless? All these pros saying how titan ex is clearable at 67, and that high ilvl just compensates lack of skill , are not gonna go ahead and get these gears?

What people want, is progression. We want content that requires us to have high ilvl. So that the gear we spend time/effort acquiring has a use. is everyone just getting gears for vanity purposes? to compensate their lack of skill? I myself would like to think my gear is going to good use, and is actually required.

More accurately, if this new dungeon IS clearable by ilvl 55, then that really is a joke. No damage check? hp/heal check? Vitality check on tank? No reason in the world at all for us to have spent time getting gears? I lift my hat to people who WANT a game like this.

you are getting that gear for the new coil, while it will be doable the new tomes will make it easier (sorta like how it is now) you are not getting tomes to do normal fun dungeons you are doing it so that you can do the end game raid.

It's skill gained through experience which is how most players learn in real life and in games. Yes some players learn at a slower rate and some aren't capable of learning because learning itself is a skill.

so wouldn't that mean we would have to give players a chance to experience the content to get better? the whole point of me saying this is people want players to get exp (not saying you) on a specific boss by getting experience from other dungeons which would not help their skill on that said boss because he is not those other bosses or dungeons. you won't get better at titan by doing wp or ak or even another primal like ifrit or garuda you have to fight titan to learn and get better at titan.

We should in the right environment. Mixing players that are experience vs newer players in the hardest content is not going to end up pleasant most of the time. There's Duty Finder (which still is bad), FC/lS, and practice party finder groups for that. Having the proper gear and the proper learning environment will help more new players more than anything rather than sticking them into content they don't belong to learn with players that are at a higher skill level/more geared than them.

don't belong there? they belong there just like better skilled and better ilvl'd players i have been saying this all day, and it no offense to anyone the problem is the community players who are i90 and been playing for months feel more entitled to things (entitled is the only word i can think of atm) everthing has to be how they want it, like we have been talking this whole time new players have to accommodate to veteran because they are better and know what they are doing.

now i will say the same can be said duty finder wise with new players they feel better players should be forced to play with them and suck it up. i simple say this in regards to DF if you are unhappy with your group be it new or vet leave take that 30 minute penalty. it is your choice to be part of the group or not but you have no choice in what a player can or can't do content wise when they make the cut to enter it.

all this talk of skill.....*disappointed*

Its so much simpler than that. This is a game focused on on 2 things. Clearing content, and gaining ilvl. Think of ilvl as getting something you need from part A, in order to be able to complete part B. Why not have to NEED a certain amount of gear to complete a dungeon? As I said a few times: progression... to make gear actually required, and not just something that makes content go faster/less forgiving.

My last mmo was tera. Its last major patch provided endgame gear far surpassing previously available gear, gained from content that was hugely easier than the current hardest content at the time of that patch. As you might have guessed, people who enjoyed the pve aspect of tera soon quit. You guys wanna see that happen to ff? I hope coil t6+ has massive gear checks..

This post is in response to the heros who think all content is clearable at minimum ilvl, which I disagree with until I see full titanEX in ilvl 67 video =D

don't worry it is it will be just like coil was when it first came out, i90 will be needed to do it that is where the gear progression is needed, you need i70-90 to do t1-5 so players will gear out in i70 (and some i90 cause they will get myths) and once they can do coil because they are i70 they will get i90 and once i90 they can start turns 6-9 (if they has beaten t5 in that time)

Hah, well I guess there's no point in debating if you think there are things you can't do. You're only limited by yourself I suppose, to me people can do anything they set their mind to. I've proven this to myself countless times by learning new skills that I did not have any inherited ability to do, amazing what a little practice and dedication can do. I guess if you want to say you can't do something then that's your problem really. Enjoy playing with all the "skilled" fresh 50s who have no experience, I'll just wait until I can join content with friends again.

when did i say fresh 50's were skilled? i merely said if they have skill they have it experience isn't going to change that only skill. if you can't learn you can't learn.
it goes for all players i90 players who aren't skilled won't be skilled.

And this is what pisses me off. They need to stop nerfing things and raise the iLVL.

Stop letting people bring a knife to a gun fight.

guess you haven't played gunz before or played re4 :P don't bring a gun to a knife fight

[DoctorPepper]

experience is just that seeing the content and getting to know it.

Hahaha you show me a player who can kill titan extreme (or even hard for that matter) on their first try without dying and I'll agree with you. Trying to say that experience has nothing to do with skill just proves that you don't know what you're talking about. How do you think that you become skilled at something? Is is magic? Last I checked people get better at things by doing them often.

that is my point everyone wants players to beat it on their first try. by doing them? so you're saying it takes seeing something happen alot to know it's coming? like i said we know when bombs drop in titan once you experence it all it takes is skill or getting more skill to do it, has nothing to do with experience.

You must be magic or something, you became skilled at something without any experience doing it. Maybe you should write a book to explain your theory since clearly everybody else in here doesn't understand you. I'm sorry but saying you are skilled at something and that it didn't take experience to become skilled at it is just pure balony. Perhaps you should reconsider your understanding of the word experienced and then get back to us.. or you know.. go write your book.

You're missing my point entirely, you were not born skilled at playing ffxiv. You became skilled at playing ffxiv because you played a lot of content and learned how the game works. The thing that seems to be going over your head is that you need to experience things to become skilled at them, the 2 words a pretty much interchangeable. You can apply that to pretty much any situation, real life and video game. Bruce Lee didn't become a kung-fu master by being born skilled at kung-fu, he became a kung-fu master because he practiced like hell until he had enough experience to become one.

[Fayto]

Things about Titan

I have to agree with this guy. The minimum iLevel for both Titan Hard and Titan Extreme is far too low. At the minimum(if the entire party is), you will barely be able to break the heart in time and tanks cannot take a Mountain Buster simply because they lack the HP without expert staggering of their cooldowns. Basically fighting at minimum makes the fights hard as shit.

[Kayo]

No one denies you can do anything at much lower ilv than most people ask for, if you are good. It's just that we can't really expect a completely random player to be good.

And thats the risk you take when you pick up randoms. I suppose for party finder its fine to set any filters you wish. For DF you roll with the punches, good or bad players, high ilvl or minimum. They really need to start enforcing these Vote Kick rules and punish abusers accordingly. Its not fair to the players who havent broken any of the games rules just because their ilvl is out of someone elses comfort zone. They are very specific on what grounds are allowed to kick someone for and "I dont like his ilvl" isnt one of them.

[Doo]

the ilvl requirement also means you have enough dps to break heart definitly if you pf it and 5 dps and not 2 tank it.

i am merely saying in the end people say ilvl is a problem but when it comes to it the problem is skill not gear.

also depends what you mean learned through experience, you can experience a battle 100 times as i said already but without the skill you will never beat it, exp does not =skill experience only tells you what will happen next skill decides if you pass what happens next.

that is my point everyone wants players to beat it on their first try. by doing them?
.

Having the ilvl requirement to do it does mean it's possible but let's be real only like one percent of the population is good enough to do that. Everyone else definitely needs the gear.

It's both. Skill and gear goes hand in hand. When you have less skills than the elites, then gear will definitely help you. That's why players want the ilvl to be bumped up.


You might not beat it in 100 tries but I'm sure most players will leave being a better player. Experience will help you anticipate better and make your timing better through repetition.


It's not about wanting to beat it first time. You can prepare as much as you like and still fail over and over. It's more about having a real chance to beat say Titan. We all been in groups where we realize it's not going to work no matter what.

[Yurimi]

And thats the risk you take when you pick up randoms. I suppose for party finder its fine to set any filters you wish. For DF you roll with the punches, good or bad players, high ilvl or minimum. They really need to start enforcing these Vote Kick rules and punish abusers accordingly. Its not fair to the players who havent broken any of the games rules just because their ilvl is out of someone elses comfort zone. They are very specific on whats allowed to kick someone for and "I dont like his ilvl" isnt one of them.

You probably shouldnt change someones words and the entire meaning of the post they make if you are quoting them if the actual quote doesnt make your post fit simply copy and delete (cut) the quote and edit your post and post it after do not completely alter a quote the way you wish to see it =P

my post was simply stating my arguement behind the difference of gear vs skilll and the set minimum requirements of the dungeon I am neither for or against it as I will either do it with friends or not do it at all.

[SarcasmMisser]

AdvancedWind has it. There seems to be a an intense backlash against high ilvls to the point where some people are actually suggesting that a higher ilvl is an indication that you're a less skilled player. As I pointed out before, increasing the ilvl requirement here wouldn't even lock people out unreasonably. It would just prevent the hardest dungeons form being the first ones you attempt.

I'm going to go with this. It suspiciously feels like people are projecting whatever grievance they have had with geared players and making up hysterical arguments about a fresh 50 somehow being this prodigy player, and they will always be in your DF group.

It feels pointless to have this low of a dungeon drop tomes for the next top tier gear. Either it doesn't making it even more pointless, it does giving the absurd situation that you get better rewards from a faceroll that fresh 50s can do than em primals, or it's actually difficult and the ilevel req is absurdly low-balled.

[Sessurea]

Lol so whats the point of gearing? we have ilvl 90 atm, yet people are claiming they can beat titan at ilvl 67( BS =D ). Next patch we're gonna go for ilvl 100-110. I guess this is all useless? All these pros saying how titan ex is clearable at 67, and that high ilvl just compensates lack of skill , are not gonna go ahead and get these gears?

What people want, is progression. We want content that requires us to have high ilvl. So that the gear we spend time/effort acquiring has a use. is everyone just getting gears for vanity purposes? to compensate their lack of skill? I myself would like to think my gear is going to good use, and is actually required.

More accurately, if this new dungeon IS clearable by ilvl 55, then that really is a joke. No damage check? hp/heal check? Vitality check on tank? No reason in the world at all for us to have spent time getting gears? I lift my hat to people who WANT a game like this.

[NeoAmon]

LOLOL

Just because you have a particular piece of gear doesn't mean you know your class.

I've seen TONS of people with EX weapons who were just terribad. I've played with people with Allagan weapons who had no idea what they were doing; they won the weapon and their other Allagan in greed-rolls and never really played the class before.


I keep seeing people with Allagan weapons here and there and set higher standards for them...so far, I've been more disappointed than satisfied.

Looks like I was not clear. Of course I was not counting greed roll or cheaters. I was talking about players on their main class. I have the SMN book and the warrior axe, yet I don't even have lvl50 of either. So yes I was talking about players who went through the entire process with twin with their main job.

As for ex will, my FC alone generated 120+ million gill from ex sales so yeah I did not mean to include buyers, greed rolls or cheaters.

[PArcher]

Looks like I was not clear. Of course I was not counting greed roll or cheaters. I was talking about players on their main class. I have the SMN book and the warrior axe, yet I don't even have lvl50 of either. So yes I was talking about players who went through the entire process with twin with their main job.

As for ex will, my FC alone generated 120+ million gill from ex sales so yeah I did not mean to include buyers, greed rolls or cheaters.

So...how can you tell the difference between the two by looking at them?

Answer: You can't.

A person who legitimately cleared content, on that class, will be an above-average player (at worst) even with worse gear. This means using their class properly, not overgearing to power through it or getting carried and not dying...


You pretty much proved my point of "gear really doesn't matter", especially since you're one of the people helping to make the problem worse.