The Ultimate Black Mage Resources with Damage Calculator

[NeoAmon]

say he "tested" everything w/o show a single data and everybody said bravo.

wow, a little bit of respect for the huge efforts and time spent creating the spread sheet, no? I have no idea what data you looking for as Puro did documented everything he did in the spreadsheet. You have the right to retest, provide a counter argument and a new formula. However, going all knowing on us with no regards or respect to the author is silly (the kindest word I could think of). No one said Puro formula or sheet is 100% accurate, it is an estimate, a good estimate. Now, whatever work you think you produced is also an estimate, after all unless you or someone else reverse engineered SE formula, everyone work will be an estimate never 100% accurate.

[NeoAmon]

Was just reading the translated interview with Yoshida about BLM. He openly says BLM is a bit weak and he want it to be that way. I think the logic was the job have Def abilities such as ManaWall.

I don't know about everyone else, but meh. I don't recall BLM lore or expectations from anyone for it to be a "utility" job. Nevertheless, so long there are AoE heavy end game "Turns" and ManaWall still works on boss mechanics we should be fine.

GW: You haven't mentioned this at all in the previous interview, but in patch 2.1 Black Mage gotten weaker right?

Y: Yes, right now Black Mage is bit weak, but if I say “Black Mage is weak” people are going to say there is going to be a buff so (laugh). But it’s not like we wanted to make it weak, it’s set to what what it should’ve been. If you think of Black Mage as a utility, it’s well balanced. It has both offensive and defensive skills, you have walls and magic barriers. During the Osaka F.A.T.E. even without any accessories Black Mage was still doing top DPS, I think it’s just about right. For Summoners and Monk DPS, if the person that can bring out the DPS plays it, it’s really amazing (laugh). If you compare it to that then sure the DPS will be lower, but I think it’s about right.

GW: You mentioned you’re going to adjust the job balance with every patch, but what kind of adjustments are you planning for 2.2?

Y: Right now we don’t have anything specific that needs to be done.

[Sleigh]

Oh I agree, by itself, Thunder II is slightly better than Thunder or Thunder III. However, with BLM, the point of UI3 is occupying your time with the best damage you can, without affecting your AH3 phase. By that, I mean Thunder, Thunder II, and Thunder III are so close in potency per second, whichever one gets to fill up more of your down-time without hindering your highest DPS phase is best. Sometimes Blizzard > Thunder is best (need to only have enough MP for Blizzard), sometimes Thunder II is best, sometimes Thunder III is best, sometimes just Blizzard is best (immediate MP tick and the enemy won't live through the DoT), sometimes even Blizzard III is best (needs to have a double MP tick requirement and Thundercloud proc recently up).

For instance, if I somehow end up with an immediate MP tick, I will use Thunder, as that occupies the time most without cutting into AH3 time. If I end up with 425 MP, as will happen often with Mulled Tea, I will Thunder III and even though it's a 1% loss in individual DPS it avoids having to wait at all to Fire III (which yes sometimes doesn't happen with Thunder II but it does often enough that you either stand there for .5s waiting for an MP tick or use Blizzard for even more of a DPS loss) and the added up-time to using Fire spam will easily outweigh the piddling damage you "lost" by choosing a weaker PPS option.

I noticed a consistent DPS increase (10-20, from the start of 2.1 doing what I used to do and Thunder II after every Blizzard III to what I do now, same gear) when I started using these techniques under the theory of, each Thunder spell is so close in PPS per the time you spend casting them that it's negligible, but if they cut into the time you're hitting for 750 per attack + a Firestarter proc chance, you're losing DPS, so fill up the down-time to the brim.

[Ceveth]

I'm not seeing how you're deriving "10-20" DPS from using Thunder III over II.
As I understand from what you're saying;

A) Fire > Blizzard III > Thunder III > Fire III is giving you 10-20 more DPS than
B) Fire > Blizzard III > Thunder II > (wait .5s) > Fire III.

Which is frankly nonsensical, but I do understand where because of the mana ticks that the additional cast time on Thunder III is irrelevant, I'm just pointing out the numbers will be no where near as high as you make them out to be.

Getting an early mana tick however and using a Thunder I instead of II to capitalize on that still only gets you back in to Astral Fire less than half a second quicker, which could potentially give you DPS gains over a long fight, and most likely where your "10-20" DPS increase is being noticed.

Something that does strike me as an interesting proposal would be when we approach extreme amounts of spell speed, i.e. BiS from this spreadsheet & spell speed food; if it wouldn't just be better to start always using Thunder I, and then filling an any addition time with a Blizzard or Scathe depending on procs. Since this allows you to always spend a minimal amount of time in Umbral Ice, without delaying your Astral Fire phase. & Thunder I + Blizzard is going to be a net DPS gain compared to a Thunder III.

[Sleigh]

I'm not seeing how you're deriving "10-20" DPS from using Thunder III over II.
As I understand from what you're saying;

A) Fire > Blizzard III > Thunder III > Fire III is giving you 10-20 more DPS than
B) Fire > Blizzard III > Thunder II > (wait .5s) > Fire III.

Which is frankly nonsensical, but I do understand where because of the mana ticks that the additional cast time on Thunder III is irrelevant, I'm just pointing out the numbers will be no where near as high as you make them out to be.

Getting an early mana tick however and using a Thunder I instead of II to capitalize on that still only gets you back in to Astral Fire less than half a second quicker, which could potentially give you DPS gains over a long fight, and most likely where your "10-20" DPS increase is being noticed.

Something that does strike me as an interesting proposal would be when we approach extreme amounts of spell speed, i.e. BiS from this spreadsheet & spell speed food; if it wouldn't just be better to start always using Thunder I, and then filling an any addition time with a Blizzard or Scathe depending on procs. Since this allows you to always spend a minimal amount of time in Umbral Ice, without delaying your Astral Fire phase. & Thunder I + Blizzard is going to be a net DPS gain compared to a Thunder III.

I don't necessarily get 10-20 more DPS from Thunder III alone, I get it from making sure I use the right UI3 filler over trying the old way of Thunder II every UI3 phase as worked so well in 2.0 but can lead to upwards of 1s of down-time in 2.1 - I've seen Thunder III fail to give a full two MP ticks before activating AH3 so Thunder II can definitely leave a bit too much empty space after it

That being said, if you don't want to take my word that it's an increase in DPS, feel free to test something like a 5 minute test using Buttons vs HQ Mulled Tea, both at 241 base Piety, plus a SCH in your party. If the Button set wins I'd be more than willing to do some more testing myself.

[Ceveth]

I don't necessarily get 10-20 more DPS from Thunder III alone, I get it from making sure I use the right UI3 filler over trying the old way of Thunder II every UI3 phase as worked so well in 2.0 but can lead to upwards of 1s of down-time in 2.1 - I've seen Thunder III fail to give a full two MP ticks before activating AH3 so Thunder II can definitely leave a bit too much empty space after it

That being said, if you don't want to take my word that it's an increase in DPS, feel free to test something like a 5 minute test using Buttons vs HQ Mulled Tea, both at 241 base Piety, plus a SCH in your party. If the Button set wins I'd be more than willing to do some more testing myself.

Yes...
This is exactly what I just said in my post that you quoted.
Also, with decent gear you should never be using Buttons anyways, as it gives less Det + Crit than Deviled Eggs, and Crit > Det.

I do find it hard to believe, strictly speaking on Thunder II vs. III, that using one or the other will lead to anything worthwhile; for the exact same reason using I over II is better. For every instance of not having wait for an additional .5 seconds and are able to reap the benefits of Thunder III, you also lose them from staying in UI III too long from not using Thunder II. (At least this is what I notice with a GCD of 2.3.)

Do you have any opinions on the last paragraph? (Of my previous post.)

[NeoAmon]

Shouldn't we scale the same way? My SMN's Ruin does around 200 damage, and adjusting that to Fire 1's potency (200/80*150*1.8) becomes 675 damage. Which sounds just about right without adjusting it for crit.

That is a very limited view. You have to look at the two jobs fundamentals. SMN is a DOT Job with limited AoE (compared to a BLM) and limited burst, while BLM is heavy AoE and burst damage with limited DOT.

From there you go about the sustainability of the two jobs. SMN is a high sustained DPS while we are slow burst RNG based job.

Numbers wise, they need 450 Acc, we need 435. They don't value SS much, while it can be the best secondary stat for us. They also use/need/want Det or Crit for different reasons than us. You look at the two adds in Titan ex for example, if the BLM is a Crit build (s)he almost needs one of the double flares to crit to keep up in the total damage and DPS department.

[NeoAmon]

Yay got the Neck ^^. Now I got every ilvl90 drop in the game. NEED T6+ nowz!

Edit: I posted pictures of Det, SS & Crit BiS on reddit. I got high level ignorance replays all over the place. One dude telling me I need to use Elder Staff for Crit BiS over Allagan, the other one telling me we got the sets wrong cause there can't be 3 BiS sets, only one which we don't know yet.

[Thorauku]

Hmm. I've been checking this thread for quite a while now, I was wondering if the data posted in the image below are parsed with a dummy and not real in a real scenario? If so, any thoughts on going with the DET build? It seems pretty decent considering there's no condition needed for it.

[PuroStrider]

Hmm. I've been checking this thread for quite a while now, I was wondering if the data posted in the image below are parsed with a dummy and not real in a real scenario? If so, any thoughts on going with the DET build? It seems pretty decent considering there's no condition needed for it.

That data is not parsed. It is calculated using my calculator based on raw damage/crit data and F3 + F1x5 Rotation (aka using the whole spreadsheet to calculate)


@NeoAmon - I appreciate all your BLM inputs m8. Would have beer with /10

in other news.. my robe finally dropped after 6 months of coil. Gonna probably take another 5 months for the circlet though.