Hard time choosing my DPSer.

[PArcher]

SNIP

Pretty much, what I get from this is "a perfect MNK will beat out a DRG 100% of the time, no matter the situation"

To correct your first point, it takes 3 GDCs to get the initial Disembowel up; HT, ID, Dis. No idea what other two GDCs you're using, but I can tell you that you're doing DRG wrong (if you say Phlem and/or Fracture...). MNK can't get to GL3 that fast, as you just said. So there really wasn't a point to this point.

Either way, MNK DPS is still not "8.89% higher than DRG, assuming both are in their correct BiS and have the same skill with their classes. I don't think the difference in DPS between an ideal SMN, DRG, MNK and BLM in idea conditions for each class (since they all excel at something different) is that high either.

Ideally, no melee is getting hit by any avoidable AoE. If one is getting hit, assume the other is. Do not assume one is and the other isn't. A good fight to see how well a player is dodging is Titan (HM or EX). And guess what? As a healer, I don't see any difference as far as damage done to any DPS goes when everyone is dodging properly In fact, I see MNK with more damage after Stomp -> Plumes because they tend to be out of position a lot more (even the really good ones) and hit by random stuff (whereas a DRG doing the proper rotation will never need to be away from the stacked group during Plumes or LS to be at 100%. Actually, there's a whole thing about DRG and Titan EX synchronization that's almost scary). So that point gets knocked off. And the flaw to the "learning curve" argument: those learning never have the ideal gear, and often don't have the pieces that give the best survivability (read: body and legs), often having "better" accessories or just plain outdated gear, which lowers survival past the point the class differences matter (also, while leveling...DRG and MNK often use the same gear, so the point completely falls apart there)

I also enjoy you praising the INT debff while bashing the piercing debuff...one thing about the INT debuff? Its not a straight 10% damage reduction; just go to PvP or take off equipment (except for your weapon) to lower your STR by 10% and see for yourself. Also the piercing debuff is the same as the blunt debuff so an argument against one is an argument against the other.

Most enemies primary attacks are physical, not magic (big enemies that use magic primarily? ADS and Ultima, and the caster-type bosses [hi you ilithid]. I can't think of other major ones that have a primary attack that is magic. How to check? Does Eye for an Eye proc off the base attacks or not.) so using Kick to reduce damage to a tank usually doesn't do anything (if Eye for an Eye works...DK does not. Nice and simple). Again, AoEs, which are primarily magic...need to be avoided 100% by everyone (except for unavoidables, and there are some that are not affected by any buffs other than Stoneskin and Adlo, sometimes they even bypass those)

Outside a few very specific places, when is it a good idea to attack a secondary target that is going to live long enough for DoTs to matter while the primary lives and has enough HP? To say that Dis doesn't matter because a DRG and BRD are going to attack two different feathers in Garuda, or two different Nails in Ifrit is an outright bad argument (also, against multiple targets it takes 1-3 GDCs for a DRG to get to 100% against a specific mob depending on multiple factors, and those 3 GDCs all do a good amount of damage even unbuffed). And if you try to bring up trash mobs...how often is a MNK at GL3 against trash? And when are BRD singing MB against trash too?
Don't even kid yourself; we're talking about boss-encounters here, single targets and maybe adds, where everyone is attacking the same target with only a handful of exceptions, and most of them don't really matter for this anyway (adds dying too fast to make a difference or such)

Last thing: I hear a lot from MNK about how hard it is to keep up GL3 in some fights now...you use Perfect Balance initially, and then lose GL3 while its on CD...you're damage is killed for a good amount of time. A DRG loses Dis? ID -> Dis and its back.

[Riichi]

I can't think of other major ones that have a primary attack that is magic.

t5 fireballs..

Also, since I'm sure we can all agree that MNK's do a little more dps than a DRG. Let's do some simple math here. I'm sure you'll find these numbers reasonable, if not GENEROUS towards your point. Let's say a Monk does 250 dps on an encounter. Then there's a DRG right behind him at 240. And let's put a BRD at 200. Now with Disembowel (which should be lower than 8.9% due to not 100% uptime, non-focused targets, and DoT damage being uneffected..but we'll keep it at 8.9 anyways) that will give the BRD an additional 17.8 dps. This basically puts the DRG at a 257.8 with the MNK at 250. Keep in mind these numbers are very generous towards your point.. I'm sure the majority of the community that has actually cleared some challenging content will gladly take the 20% Mantra and -10% INT debuff which, as TheHomieData stated, reduces raid damage by just that much. If your group has competent DPS, the extra 7.8 theoretical dps won't mean anything, whilst the magic damage reduction just might save someone's skin.

[Wingszerodrive]

well all i can say i have both classes they both good minor difference but not game breaking..... some groups want a dragoon while other prefer monk reguardless they both melee and they both rock so it all come downs wich one u like more i do agree dragoons need a bit moer magic def =/

[EasymodeX]

Too much QQ.

MNKs deal about 8% more personal damage than a DRG. DRGs buffs Bard DPS by around 7.5%.

MNKs have more defensive utility for the group (20% Mantra, Int debuff). DRGs have more on-demand burst damage, significant AOE damage capability, and higher resilience to boss mechanics (no dropping GL). E.g. more reliable damage.

Overall they're even enough. Dragoons are overall "better" for damage from a strategic perspective. Monks have more utility and can potentially achieve higher single target numbers on a meter.

[Arlen]

SMN is not for everyone because you have to constantly control and sustain your pet. As well as the use of DoTs does not appeal to anyone.

Please don't speak for everyone. I personally like DoTs. So, your statement is false.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/4721241/

Bard- LVL 0
Monk- LVL 0
BLM- LVL 0
SMN- LVL 3 (Arcanist)

GTHO

[TheHomieData]

To correct your first point, it takes 3 GDCs to get the initial Disembowel up; HT, ID, Dis. No idea what other two GDCs you're using, but I can tell you that you're doing DRG wrong (if you say Phlem and/or Fracture...). MNK can't get to GL3 that fast, as you just said. So there really wasn't a point to this point. [ except that Perfect Balance -> 3 combo finishers -> GL3. this does not account, however, for the increased atk speed that stacks with each GL. so, yes, monks can do that, if not a little faster.]

Either way, MNK DPS is still not "8.89% higher than DRG [again, 8.89% refers to the damage offset of disembowel on a singing bard. that could've been inferred, though, as bards are the only dps class capable, via songs, of a self inflicted damage penalty] assuming both are in their correct BiS and have the same skill with their classes. I don't think the difference in DPS between an ideal SMN, DRG, MNK and BLM ["ideal dps composition" is highly variable, dependent on the fight, and becomes more negligible with player skill.]in idea conditions for each class (since they all excel at something different) is that high either.

Ideally, no melee is getting hit by any avoidable AoE [given that OP has no experience as a melee, this is highly improbable.]. If one is getting hit, assume the other is [no. no, you cannot assume that. one melee dodging AoE is not mutually exclusive with other players receiving it.] In fact, I see MNK with more damage after Stomp -> Plumes [your individual experiences are not indicative of others] because they tend to be out of position a lot more (even the really good ones) and hit by random stuff (whereas a DRG doing the proper rotation will never need to be away from the stacked group during Plumes or LS to be at 100%. [again, your individual experiences do not reflect the collective] Actually, there's a whole thing about DRG and Titan EX synchronization that's almost scary). So that point gets knocked off.[uhhh.... straight up: what???] And the flaw to the "learning curve" argument: those learning never have the ideal gear, and often don't have the pieces that give the best survivability (read: body and legs), often having "better" accessories or just plain outdated gear, which lowers survival past the point the class differences matter (also, while leveling...DRG and MNK often use the same gear, so the point completely falls apart there)


rephrasing what you've said, roll drg and don't bother rolling monk because - the inherent differences between mnk and drg defenses can be mitigated by equipping mnk gear, except that actually learning how to play a class is dependent on having "ideal gear". most people, however, are not using this ideal gear and thus gimp their survivability. at 50, they will be forced to wear their respective class gear where the disparities in defense will be apparent in their survivability to AoE. this survivability, however, is null and void because ideal team set-ups are common and nobody will get hit by AoE, due to their skill and gear - gear acquired by skill... skill that capitalizes on optimal gear...

here you go! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

i just stopped reading after that.


never said monk is better than dragoon. just pointing out some of the utilities offered as a monk to the OP, should he decide to roll a melee-dps, as he does not "need" to roll a dragoon. if coming to terms with the notion that monks are just as viable in any party as another dps class causes you such distress, it might be a good idea to cut back on the xiv hours O_O

[Remn]

/ac "Fire" <t>
/wait 3 (x3/4/5/or whatever amount of MP you can use to cast)
/ac "Transpose" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Blizzard"<t>
/wait 3 (x3/4/5/until you gain full mana)
/ac "transpose" <me>
/repeat....

Since your macro only allows 15 lines to write, split fire and blizzard into two macros, thus - two buttons.

you do know that your fire 1 cast time is 2.4ish (depend on speel speed) second right? using wait 3, you will cause .6 second wait time for each Fire spell.
Last time I check , /wait in this game function with .5 sec incremental.
you can use /wait 2.1 but the game will fire your macro at 2.5 second. if you do /wait 2.6 the game will fire it at 3.0 second. (not sure if that fix this yet). you lose a lot of DPS when you do it from macro.

also i find BLM very fun to play. Their rotation is easy, but you have to be more tactical on where you stand to minimize your movement.

[PArcher]

SNIP

Well I'm sorry my post wasn't up to your standards, but it also helps if you were to read my initial one more carefully...where I stated that MNK are great in a party in place of a BRD for maximum non-stacked DPS. Oops...
The fact that we had a MNK in our Coil group and were having really fast, clean clears til we had a scheduling conflict doesn't matter either, does it?

Anyway...MNK utility isn't nearly at the same level as a BRD or even SMN (its too situational; yes, when its useful its great, but in many places you just don't notice the 10% INT debuff and Mantra is often wasted as well) and no one is bringing a MNK purely for utility except in a very small number of situations. I've seen more MNK excluded in certain fights due to their lack of burst and/or AoE over MNK being brought around due to utility.

Also, to take your logic, I should have stopped responding after you made a relatively big fault with your argument, saying it takes 5 GDCs to get Dis up initially. Silly me. And you did go ahead and completely dismiss one class over the other entirely...Remember, just because you say "no offense" doesn't make what you said not offensive

[Asdamine]

Please don't speak for everyone. I personally like DoTs. So, your statement is false.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/4721241/

Bard- LVL 0
Monk- LVL 0
BLM- LVL 0
SMN- LVL 3 (Arcanist)

GTHO

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/4696501/

Really now, as if you know what I do with my ACCOUNT.

Also, why are you taking offence to that statement? It was a compliment. You playing a summonor proves you are a rare breed, what's wrong with that?

P.S. And when you say "personally", it really doesn't mixed well with "please don't speak for everyone". Just saying... it contradicts things.

snip

Check again, it is count to the nearest whole number. Yoshida P stated specifically that it WAS possible in beta but he/SE limited system's capability to avoid abuse or too much "auto-play".

Guys, what I said was in layman's term - For a newbie, who is new to the game, just starting, learning. Don't throw in rocket science numbers and shakespeare in a way that he/she wouldn't understand. Just generalise things, please.

[Arlen]

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/4696501/

Really now, as if you know what I do with my ACCOUNT.

Also, why are you taking offence to that statement? It was a compliment. You playing a summonor proves you are a rare breed, what's wrong with that?

P.S. And when you say "personally", it really doesn't mixed well with "please don't speak for everyone". Just saying... it contradicts things.

You are certainly amusing.

Just to clarify. Personally means that is what I think. Hence, I'm speaking for me and not everyone.

Your statement said "does not appeal to anyone." I point out that it does in fact appeal to me. So that makes your statement false. Why? Because when you say anyone, I am included in that blanket statement.

They certainly do mix.