Best in Slot for SMN after 2.1?

[T0rin]

The only relevant discussion in terms of skewed scaling are:

1. The SMN crit -> spellhate proc for Garuda was it?
2. Ifrit gains bonus scaling from DTR due to physical autoattacks.
3. Fixed DoT timer and SMN heavy reliance on DoTs causes a partially reduced scaling from SS.

Everything else is pretty much a wash and comes down to raw damage formula.

Yep.

1. Very underwhelming. Difference in CRT and DTR sets amount to about a 0.1% decrease in Garuda DPS from SS buffs, the same for a SMN if in the middle of Ruin filler, and even less of a decrease if casting DoTs. The crit proc buff is really very weak, and is not a compelling reason to use a CRT based set.

2. Nobody uses Ifrit, but I will have to try to test out striking dummy DPS once I finish my DTR set.

3. This is true, but casting DoTs consumes only 37% of our casting time with a GCD of 2.94. (DTR set) So the other 63% of the time, we get the full benefit from SS. That 37% of the time we get very little benefit from SS, as we are usually clipping DoTs at very low durations (0-1) or finishing a re-cast shortly after a DoT expired. The cumulative benefit of SS on DoT casts is kind of hard to put a number to, which is part of why I wanted to simulate it. While SS in general is a 'weak' stat, it is not all together useless, because of how much time we do spend casting Ruin. Still though, it is the weakest stat from a DPS contribution standpoint.

And for the record, I do use the CRT heavy BiS currently. I have nothing against CRT in general, and used the BiS set I was able to put together. That said, had the DTR items dropped for me instead, I would have no qualms using that instead.

[paradigmfellow]

Yep.



And for the record, I do use the CRT heavy BiS currently. I have nothing against CRT in general, and used the BiS set I was able to put together. That said, had the DTR items dropped for me instead, I would have qualms using that instead.

I have both sets, but I can't experiment since I do not have the allagan book. My static can't beat t5.

[idle0ne]

t5 isn't a hard fight, its really all about mechanics.just need 1 person to know the timers and ot call for things. i.e. divebomb twisters dreadknight, this is pretty much 1 of our tanks, the main tank is payin attention to the timers too but hes calling for when death sentence happens. if you don't get it down now it'll just be a month before they make bc easier than it already is.

[Ragnirok]

Torin has spoken! On a different note I have both sets sans book (god damn healers hogging all the loot) but both sets seem so close to each other that i just go with w.e looks best. (I don't like capri's)

[NexusArchmagus]

Man, you don't take criticism well.

Have you tried these in T4? Could you post up a parse? Hell, even a video. I'm missing the SMN book so if you could indulge us with some real time data that'd be cool.

[Seobit]

http://i.imgur.com/k3b7NIJ.jpg

Not any of the BiS sets and not accuracy capped (forgot to switch gloves back for coil).

200 dps on t4 is simply too low. I'm not saying you did bad personally, just saying there's more to the results you posted than gear choice (could be parser was messed up maybe). And besides there's too much variation for dps in actual encounters for it to be a reliable measure in figuring out the best set of gear.

[EasymodeX]

Do you have your pet re-named to you?

Also, was the DRG using AOEs?

Edit:

200 DPS is legit SMN-personal (non-pet) DPS on T4 if they have 2 other AOE classes (BLM + DRG) spamming hard AOEs during P1/P4. Could be higher, but not bad.

T4's honestly one of the worst fights to compare parses between players of different groups due to the fight approach varying so much, and the other players interfering with damage potential.

[Seobit]

Yeah that's pet merged. I guess 200 makes a bit more sense if you only consider the personal SMN dps, I'm just so used to merged now I forget SMN has his own damage, heh. From memory though garuda was 17% of the damage on that fight so ~330 personal dps, still far above 200. Although the other SMN also usually runs BLM and I do lower then since he gets to steal most of the AoE damage and he comes out on top.

Dunno what DRG was doing. No bards anymore so no TP song, not sure how it fits into the scenario.

[EasymodeX]

If a BLM + DRG are unloading AOE burst, the spiders in p1 will basically be dead / almost dead by the time a SMN full loads spells (which means they should adapt and Bane after like 1-2 DoTs, or just SF-AOE Miasma + Blizz2 spam, or w/e). In this scenario the SMN would basically not get too much damage out in p1.

DRG can pump out basically >650 DPS in phase 1, with the BLM pulling the same. If you're really trying to optimize the fight, then the WHM should also pop a Holy-SC Holy or w/e. DRG + BLM + WHM would probably have spiders killed in less than 10 seconds. Maybe 15.

BRD TP song wouldn't be relevant unless the DRG were carrying AOEs by themselves, which is unusual. With a BLM, they can conserve sufficient TP that no TP song is necessary.

P4 is a bit variable depending on how fast p2-3 went. If they went fast, then the DRG may not have certain cooldowns up for p4, which significantly affects their AOE output, so the SMN would be able to take more of the damage. BLMs don't really have relevant cooldowns so they would be putting out AOEs regardless.

If the DRG were min-maxing the total fight, they would go ham AOE on p1 for >700 DPS, do slow DPS on p2 and p3 (conserve TP), then go ham on p4 again for >450 (fast 2-3) or >600 (slow 2-3).

Depending on how much ST burst DPS your teammates are doing (note: with 2x SMN, probably less than average), the clockworks in p2 could go down exceedingly fast one-by-one, meaning less bane damage over time.

The SMN can gain the most consistent DPS on p2,5,6, depending on whether or not the mobs are tanked within bane range.


TLDR:

Basically if your DRG is not AOEing (or AOEing much), then your group is characterized by a slower p1/p4, allowing you to accrue a lot of AOE damage in those phases. This is (imo) abnormal for t4 since most groups tend to have a BLM.

[Seobit]

I still see a solid 360+ with the BLM around, although I don't really like throwing out numbers when I don't have an actual parse to relate it to. Double SMN was all I had on hand for this week so that's what I linked.

If anything though this all serves to corroborate what I previously mentioned about actual encounters being a poor metric for figuring out best gear sets. Even the exact same group can and will see fluctuation in performance, as players aren't machines and they never play the exact same way on each attempts, and as just discussed personal performance is very often directly influenced by group performance.

Turn 4 is probably one of the most notable example of this, but it's still applicable for pretty much every fights where timings and transitions will shift depending on overall group performance. Even a simple fight like caduceus can create variation simply depending on how quickly he dies.

In the end, only sim bot can save us. All our hopes and dreams must go with sim bot, and in turn he will lead us to freedom.