So apparently FFXIV-App is banworthy now?

[Zakalwe]

Wrong. There is no rule against this. It is not harassment, nor can you effectively argue it is hurting their gaming experience because the exact same thing can be used as a counter-point. I went over this earlier in the thread I think, but the only reason you would not be able to kick someone for their DPS and still be within your right to do so without breaking the rules is if you insult or harass them for it before/after you've kicked them.

Um, wrong. There are only 4 permitted uses of vote kick. AFK, link dead, harassment, and cheating. Not pumping out uber DPS fits which category?

[Aicasia]

Um, wrong. There are only 4 permitted uses of vote kick. AFK, link dead, harassment, and cheating. Not pumping out uber DPS fits which category?

You don't have to vote kick someone to kick them from the party. Again, I covered all of this in my other post a few pages ago. Not that I expect anyone to actually read the thread they're posting in, but whatever.

[MidBoss]

Wrong. There is no rule against this. It is not harassment, nor can you effectively argue it is hurting their gaming experience because the exact same thing can be used as a counter-point. I went over this earlier in the thread I think, but the only reason you would not be able to kick someone for their DPS and still be within your right to do so without breaking the rules is if you insult or harass them for it before/after you've kicked them.

It's unfortunate, but being unskilled isn't a valid reason to kick someone. That's SE's official stance.

[Zakalwe]

You don't have to vote kick someone to kick them from the party. Again, I covered all of this in my other post a few pages ago. Not that I expect anyone to actually read the thread they're posting in, but whatever.

My apologies then. Yes, in a pre-made group you can do whatever the heck you want as long as it isn't using the vote-kick function. I did read this entire thread (no need to be snarky), but can't remember every single post.

[Aicasia]

It's unfortunate, but being unskilled isn't a valid reason to kick someone. That's SE's official stance.

SE's official stance doesn't mean anything. You shouldn't vote kick them for it, because if you're in DF you should know what you're walking into. But you can kick them. There is literally no rule against having a PF group step out, inform the person why they are being kicked, and kicking them manually, then finding a replacement. Or an FC group doing the same thing.

I'm not arguing DF etiquette, since the only way to handle kicks there is vote kick and that has clear rules attached to it. But if it is your party and someone isn't pulling their weight and is hurting the group you are free to kick them. Hell, you don't actually have to tell them why if you don't want to, you cannot legally be punished for it.

Until it is specifically stated or covered by the ToS (which isn't actually legally binding anyway), if it is your party, as long as you don't break any established rules, you can kick whoever you want for whatever reason you want (again, within the set rules). This is because you could argue that their bad DPS is hurting YOUR experience, even if they claim you kicking them is hurting their experience. Their bad DPS is also holding back several people.

tl;dr As long as you aren't insulting/harassing someone for low DPS, you can kick them from your party if you want (Not vote kick) and there is nothing can be done about it.

My apologies then. Yes, in a pre-made group you can do whatever the heck you want as long as it isn't using the vote-kick function. I did read this entire thread (no need to be snarky), but can't remember every single post.

Didn't mean to be rude about it, I'm just used to people quoting me without reading the rest of the thread.

[kukurumei]

You do realize that you are using an unofficial, unsanctioned tool as an excuse to kick. That's harassment. That's no different from me slapping you because I claimed I saw a mosquito on your face.

Do you get to kick because of ping times too, if you have a sniffer that can sniff out your team member's IP address as well?

Get off your epeen and realize the fine line between being an effective leader and a jerk has some rules.

[Aicasia]

You do realize that you are using an unofficial, unsanctioned tool as an excuse to kick. That's harassment. That's no different from me slapping you because I claimed I saw a mosquito on your face.

That isn't harassment though. That's just you coming up with an excuse to slap me. Actually, it's assault.

[MurakumoMillennium]

whatisthisIdon'teven.

People get banned because VPNs do automatic flags to their accounts for goldselling. It's an automated system Blizz has. If you think everyone who uses a vpn is a goldseller I don't know what to tell you. Many who use a vpn that have nothing to do with rmt get flagged in that game.

And AGAIN, it doesn't matter. This has nothing to do with this thread. The point is, people should not just assume because SE ok'd VPNs that means they ok'd parsers.

Use at your own risk as Blowfin said, don't expect them to be the same. That's the only relevance VPNs have to this thread, so you should stop trying to derail the real issue here.

Right, so nobody has ever made for be banned for use of VPN. They were made for be flagged as goldseller and banned for this, not for make use of VPN.

[kukurumei]

That isn't harassment though. That's just you coming up with an excuse to slap me. Actually, it's assault.

verbal/mental assault is otherwise known as harassment.

No matter how many hairs are split. Crossing the line of being an effective leader is obvious here. Thus a GM being involve is correct. Don't do it, and worse, don't make excuses when you're called on it.

We all parse sometimes, we can even talk about, but once you cross that line and use it as a tool to call people out. That's it. parsing is not sanctioned, not accurate, and does not tell the complete story. You can be effective without parsing well, and you can be parsing well and not be effective. That fact that the tool that is so not suppose to be there, is used as ammunition in a spat is the point.

[Synapse]

Hey 3rd party program is OK as long as people are not kicked from party for results.
If you want a 100% fail proof win, invite people you know.

Out in the market you are going to have people learning things or perfecting their techniques..

If the DPS is absolutely horrible meaning really horrible with a mile gap between the previous dps, then it better to ask why is he lacking dps.

also, you dont need a parser to see this. it will be evident.