What went wrong? Is it the game or the grenre?

[Xairos]

What i really wonder is how can we list out the standards that we hope for in a mmo and still look forward to upcoming releases like we have wiped the standard list clean?

Does EQNext look like it will be a slow trod to max level? I don't think so if the genre is telling of the target player average playtime and attention span. What about TESO? Probably the same there too.

As far as EVE online is concerned, it has stabilized before it started to see a consistent community and then growth. It didnt start off puking rainbows (but it does now i bet). I know many (MANY) who don't touch that game because it was widely known as EXCEL the MMO.

As so many other posters have documented here, list out your RL responsibilities and then ask yourself if you would want to spend a 5hr play session on one day to mark off one inch of progress towards what you are doing. I'll be honest, there are times I would, but there are also times I wouldn't.

I remember times in FFXI where I would fall asleep playing in a party because I knew that if i logged off, my progress would might take hours to get restarted. In fact, me falling asleep playing became a trademark of my long gaming sessions. Anything of merit that i wanted to do in-game would take an hour or two in preparation and I HAD a linkshell.

[Meshico]

pair of strider boots.
Eurytos' Bow.
Kirin's Osode.
Leaping Boots.
Emperor's Hairpin.

Not a single time in ARR have I had a feeling I could relate as strongly as to those achievements listed above.

I get a huge sense of accomplishment when I got my full Acolyte, Mages Gear it was amazing, and then i got my Cavalry Set which was super awesome and now i'm working on my infantry set!

Those are good...and about the closest thing to NM's out there...the only difference is you'll get one of these items almost guaranteed every run, granted it might be the same item, but then again it might not.

And Emperor's Hairpin was useful for so many level's...and those level's took soooooooo much more time.

But I don't mind my gear is only useful for like 5 level's...I will wait for the silly Vanity system and use it then I enjoy the endless grind for this gear so much more ( more like the reward than the grind )

[Kaaylryn]

I think that often we forget about the player base itself. Some of us have played since UO, for others WOW was their first MMO. And actually SWTOR brought in a lot of first time gamers due to the IP. Game companies must now cater to the 'casual' player since the majority of their income is derived from the working stiff who has limited time to play. Time is a commodity that is getting more scarce in our ever changing world.

MMO gaming has garnered an interest from many who would not have played 10 or 15 years ago. Players are now in the age range of children to retirees, something not seen 15 or more years ago. The 'hard core' gamer is always looking for more challenge, tougher fights, penalties, etc. The 'casual' just wants to get as far as they can in the limited amount of time they have to play. So the game companies must decide between catering to 5 to 15% of the gaming community or the other 85 to 95%. They will always defer to where they can make the most income. This will only expound as MMO gaming becomes more and more mainstream. It is not a niche entertainment any more.

My original FC was comprised of long time FFX players, some migration from SWTOR, some first time MMO players. It dwindled over the past few months. Some due to school, others because they did not like the game, some due to RL issues, others because we were not hard core enough, and some because we were too hard core for their play style. So, a FC of roughly 50 players dwindled to just 7 of us. A few no longer game at all, many went back to solo RPG games where they can play at their own pace and when they have time.

Also, as long as game companies push out games at this unprecedented rate, what is the incentive to stay with just one game? Human nature is to constantly look for that next new shiney and game companies do not disappoint with their constant offerings, it is just that the content is sometimes not conducive to long term loyalty.

[Skotie]

Game companies must now cater to the 'casual' player since the majority of their income is derived from the working stiff who has limited time to play. Time is a commodity that is getting more scarce in our ever changing world.

This is what I really don't understand. MMO's have always been a huge world for people to explore that you weren't going to finish overnight, or even in a few months. It's a game played for the long term and your trying to sell it to people who don't really have the time for that experience? *scratches head*

[Heavell]

SE, can you do something please....

I've just thinking that i pay a month subs is actually only for 4 or 5 days. After finished coil, ex-primals and CT in a row.... next is 6 days waiting time.

Please, can you make one big expansion but without adopting current system. Just don't listen to casual players who whining too much because it's hard, too much time consuming, want have same gear like hardcore players, etc this time.

I feel like i'm on kid's playground where each 3 months. i'll get 1 new stuff and need to play it for another 3 months but actually i only can play it a day each week

[Kyri]

oh man i remember in xi when just seeing someone in full rdm af was drool-able and worshipy. If you wear af here it's a laughable and kickable offense. I -cried- happy tears when I got my rdm af2 hat after years of trying for it. Now the only thing im missing is full BIS gear for my already ilv 90 jobs and that's not that awesome as 80% of the population has it. Im not into fates so I haven't touched Arcanist yet and I miss exp parties.. not fate parties where the whm casts stone and never heals and the pt is 7 pld/wars. Where challenge isn't lag or if you can get to odin in the 1 minute hes up... Ex primals were a step in the right direction but even then I don't really find Titan fun at all.. more like crossing your fingers and hoping that this 89th party of the week has what it takes to dodge. This isn't the type of hard I hoped for

[AjoraOak]

FFXI's gear was neat in that it added bonuses to your abilities and that gave people reasons to keep their AF/random gear with good effects even if the stats weren't the most amazing. That kinda concept doesn't fit well with a gear treadmill based mmo though so they couldn't even keep the AF bonuses from 1.0.

[Zezlar]

All I know is though is that lately my friends list has went from people being online all the time to nobody logging in at all. This game has a serious problem with compelling people with lasting content.

[Jonjon]

The problem is this game.
People like to point to unleveled classes/jobs as an indication of content. Those classes can only maybe qualify as content if the player has an interest in it. Since cross class skills are overly restricted, there is little interest beyond the "must haves". Most games have multiple classes yet most people only level a handful of those as alts anyway. EQ2 had 24, 25 now, and most had about 4 alts.

Opinions will differ but, there are really no worth while goals in this game. I spent hours in EQ2 farming that drop I wanted. That piece of gear that would make me more effective or even that piece of loot that I found amusing or wanted to try out. This game has homogenized all the gear, there is no individuality which honestly even 1.0 had.

There is no reason to go out into the world unless you are leveling. The DF takes care of all your needs. The world is nice looking sure, but very little incentive to actually see it. To this day I still like to log into EQ2 simply to go say hi to Nagafen. That is lasting impressionable content. Whats the name of that NPC behind the desk in the waking sands? I can't remember and I read every line of dialogue in the main story. Even the npcs are forgettable.

Every alt I rolled I went and did the prismatic weapon line even though the reward was a level 50 weapon that was beyond archaic. Why? Because it was interesting. The Prismatic Baton of the Scale was a technicolor lightsaber. I had an illusion that made me a Gnoll. For giggles I made my last name Darth Gnoll of the Scale. I am not a particular fan of Star Wars, but I found it amusing.

Nothing in this game makes me want to play it which is why I regret completely subbing for 6 months at launch.

Lastly the terrible CS, censor and ban happy mods, rampant botting and contradictory nature of the game do nothing to instil faith in this game.

[zdub303]

All I know is though is that lately my friends list has went from people being online all the time to nobody logging in at all. This game has a serious problem with compelling people with lasting content.

This too, regardless of game design choices, 80% of my friends list doesn't log in any more, i'm probably going to delete about 75% of this list here soon when I have the motivation to manually delete each name.

I just left 6 linkshells that haven't had a person speak in them for weeks. I'm down to 3 LSs now. One for my FC, one for my static group, and one for the 'hardcore' players on the server. Everything else is dead. Crafter/gatherer LSs are a joke now with so many omni-crafters in game.

I'm not saying the game is dying or anything like that, but its really starting to feel dead to me considering 4 out of 5 people i've played with and added to my friend's list are no longer logging in.