Story Elements that need to be added or improved:

[PArcher]

*We* see the Ascians for the obvious villains that we are because we are adventurers and we have the Echo. To your average person, I am under the impression that the Ascians aren't so obviously evil and so can smooth talk people into believing what they want.

I agree with this.

After all, there is one pretty important Echo involving a certain Ascian explaining this pretty well...

[Wadoka]

Aldis just went off on his voyage of discovery again, and Mylla went back to running the Colosseum like she was before. I thought that was pretty obvious and didn't need any further plot explanation in the game.

Have you no romance in your soul? That's extremely unsatisfying, a violation of Narrative Causality!

[Alberel]

Have you no romance in your soul? That's extremely unsatisfying, a violation of Narrative Causality!

Most of the class quest lines are left quite open after their 'conclusion' at 30. I assumed this was deliberate so they could continue them later.

[Fendred]

I agree with this.

After all, there is one pretty important Echo involving a certain Ascian explaining this pretty well...

Care to point it out? Telling me it is "important" doesn't tell me jack about what you are referring to. The thread is already spoiler territory. If you are referring to the new 2.1 cutscene where it is clear only minfilia can see Elidibus, that doesn't really suggest much of anything other than they can go invisible. They still present themselves in their robes and make no effort to hide that they are Ascian. Also, if I can't recall any cutscene justifying the Ascians as actually deceptive, that is not a good sign in terms of square's storytelling, which would bring me back to the point I made. It really doesn't have anything to do with any special power the adventurer has. If they don't show ascians being effective deceivers, I have no reason to believe they are. It's that part of storytelling called show, not tell.

[Anad]

Actually it was implied by Eli that the form we see them is due to the extent of our own understanding, and we yet to see their true form. This goes to explain how some can't see the Ascians, some see them in a different form and us who sees them as they are now.

Add to that, when they talked to beast men, most likely they were possessing some one who didn't look evil.

[NoloeTazier]

Well in 1.0, it was never really hinted at the Paragons being Ascians or really even being Evil at all. After all it seemed like it was just the Paragons teaching the Beast tribes to summon the Primals to protect them from the Garleans...sure we're here in the now and we can clearly see the negative effects they have both on aether and individuals. I just want SE to give us a clear story with the Paragon-Ascian connection and the Ascian-Travanchet connection in 1.0. For those not familiar with 1.0 here are "Ascians" in 1.0:




And here is Travanchet whom Anonymoose could talk more in-depth about. Funny thing is the picture with Travanchet brings up more questions about the Ascians. Ok we clearly know Lahabrea took over Thancred, so an Ascian took over Travanchet (or maybe the Ascian's name is Travanchet) but what did the Ascian want with the Horn? Also we were sent on a wild goose chase by Ferne with the "looking for characters in cutscenes who lacked shadows," as far as I know only Travanchet lacked a shadow, he also had his own theme music.

As far as the 'new' Ascian form. They are very similar to the GrimReaper form we saw. The robe-garb is essentially the same maybe a bit more fancy and instead of bone-claws they have Darklight-looking claws. But the most important factor is that the Beastmen were able to see the Ascian, not just people with the Echo. And the reaction of the Beastmen was that to be scared and flee, clearly they saw the same image we did after all GrimReaper images are shown throughout different cultures associating with darkness and death so why wouldn't it be the same in FFXIV. But this is why we have the Lore forum, to ask the questions.

[Anonymoose]

They Key (horn) is still pretty mysterious to me, though Travanchet is definitely Ascian. His theme music is the Ascian theme. He was definitely a double agent, however. He masqueraded as a Serpent Reaver, which allowed him to walk openly among both the Sahagin and Lominsans unnoticed for what he was until he revealed himself to take possession of the horn. However, I've always wondered if he was a mere Reaver to the Sahagin or just presented himself as such to Emerick. We see him command two Sahagin/Reaver ships into battle against the Barracudas... but I've always wondered if perhaps he was the Paragon assigned to them as well.

The same theme was also played when the Reaper ascian was sighted in Thanalan, as well as a few of the times we meet Lahabrea in ARR. As for the Ascian / Paragon connection, we were getting pretty close to the reveal in Version 1.0. In the final released quest, we finished up a side-story arc about Ala Mhigan refugees attempting to strike back at the empire. This introduced Gaius, the Imperial presence in Mor Dhona, and their entire concept of indoctrinating children to fight the coming Calamity. Two further main scenario quests had been developed, but never released, that went back to the story of the Ascians and the reveal of Titan. Even in the 2009/2010 trailers you can see the Company of Heroes elezen marauder getting ready to cleave the Lord of Crags.

The translations of those quests that I found are rough and dirty, but seem to imply that the grim reaper Ascians only started to appear ten years ago and that they are the very entities that terrify the beast tribes so. The Sylphs refer to the Ascians of things of terrible evil but the Paragons as divine messengers, albeit of gods that darken hearts and poison minds. It may very well be that the reaper ascians were diversions... scare tactics meant to make the tribes latch on to the Paragons offers; the left hand scaring the mouse into the right hand's grasp.

[Fendred]

Actually it was implied by Eli that the form we see them is due to the extent of our own understanding, and we yet to see their true form. This goes to explain how some can't see the Ascians, some see them in a different form and us who sees them as they are now.

Add to that, when they talked to beast men, most likely they were possessing some one who didn't look evil.

I guess it just comes back to the story in 2.0 not really making a clear demonstration of this ( not that I don't believe you... I am speaking in terms of the story's depiction of Ascians via cutscenes). For Haukke Manor, I believe it is said a mysterious stranger gave the lady of the manor the ritual to restore her beauty, and the presence of the Ascians at the manor suggests that it was indeed an Ascian. However, no one strictly states what the visitor looked like. This poses a similar problem with the moogles, where they say a masked individual gave them the ritual to summon their king. In addition, Baelsar doesn't really make any mention of what Lahabrea looks like to him, so I just assume that he sees the same thing I'm seeing. So from a storytelling perspective, I think they really fail to communicate the illusory abilities of the Ascians properly.

[Enkidoh]

But that's the point - the Ascians can change their appearance to suit their needs and hence how we perceive them is their actual form (or at least, whatever host they happen to be occupying). Every time they're shown on screen, they're all shown to be the same black clad figure with hyur features (which contradicts Travanchet in 1,0 ). No further explanation needs to be given really about them - it's a common trope in fiction after all (Azeyma above, I really need to stop going on that site ).

Moose also brought up an interesting idea about them in regards to the 'bestial' one in 1.0 which I admit I had never even considered - the whole thing being an Ascian false-flag operation actually makes perfect sense, as it fits in well with the Ascians' demonstrated talent for patient manipulation and exploitation. What better way to bend the weak to your will by using the oldest tool of power (fear)?.

After all, ARR clearly shows time and again the Ascians no longer limiting themselves to exploiting just the beast tribes, but actually manipulating the five races as well (Gaius and the XIVth Legion, some Ala Mhigan refugees,

the 'dark SMN' Tristan in the SMN Job quest line

), so using a tactic like a wraith-like entity to scare superstitious Eorzeans into a state of hysteria where they can easily be manipulated just suits their MO, especially as their very reason for existence is stated clearly as spreading chaos and enmity (as part of Zodiark's return).

Have you no romance in your soul? That's extremely unsatisfying, a violation of Narrative Causality!

Sure they had tons of unresolved sexual tension, but personally I thought that was one battle that had long been lost and had no hope. I much prefer to follow romances that have clear resolutions hehe.

[Skies]

To note, Fendred.
It's shown that the only Scion without the power of the Echo (not counting our Sharlayan friends), their lalafell secretary, could not in fact even see Elidibus despite the fact she almost damn well ran into him.