Crystal farming and gatherers

[Shadygrove]

....
Since bots can't reasonably play the game well enough to reach highest levels (at least, with current technology), levels would be the perfect filter to allow actual people to have an easy day while bots will stay at its efficiency level

You think so? There were WHM bots in FFXI over 5 years ago. Better than some players at healing.

There have been reports of bots in XIV's dungeons, not good ones, but I am sure there are good ones.

Gathering and crafting bots can easily get to 50.

[Raestloz]

Of course they'd be better at healing, bots can make microsecond decisions faster than a human can, we're talking about DoL here.

I do not mean to say that bots can't reach highest levels, they can simply by virtue of repeating the same thing over and over and reach level 50 eventually, but with every second they spend leveling (taking quests etc), it's a second of not getting something to sell

[HEC]

You don't need to take quest to level (any) class - the sheer amount of gathering / killing mobs for drops 24/7 every day will level them in no time ...

[Sibyll]

This is probably ignorance on my part, but are the bots low level characters or are they high level characters?

My impression was people would roll up a level 1 and farm shards in low level zones, so I'd think that increasing shard yields for the 400 GP skills from the traits would make sense as the OP states. For example:

Ward I: Wards can now be used on Crystals. Increases shard yield by 2 (Shard +4; Crystals +2)
Ward II: Wards can now be used on Clusters. Increased shard/crystal yield by 1 (Shards +5; Crystals +3; Clusters +2)

Another option too could be to add node characteristics on the higher level nodes that increase crystal yield (I know I've seen this buff in Nophica for Shard yield). This would at least add a reason for farming Shards in higher level zones. As of now, there really is no incentive to farm shards in a level 40 node over a level 5 node.

[HEC]

The only reason to gather shards at higher levels of nodes is for luminary reward.

[Penguinmayhem]

I can't afford to buy the shards I need to make end-tier equipment. Rosewood lumber alone is six shards each.

Just to put that in perspective, getting the achievement list filled up for Carpenter and get that luminary saw would require me to craft, at most, three thousand pieces of rosewood lumber. That's eighteen thousand shards. That is a truly preposterous number. But more to the point, the sheer usage of shards in higher-tier crafting is downright ridiculous without any laughably unreachable achievements. What utterly infuriates me on top of that is the fact that the wards also boost crystal and cluster collection rates, but they're not necessary at all because the star-tier recipes don't use remotely the numbers as the normal level 41-50 recipes.

It's even worse by far for Culinarian, where you need to make dozens if not hundreds of various recipes on a fairly regular basis, especially if you're part of a company that relies on you as the primary source of food.

[Borland]

getting the achievement list filled up for Carpenter and get that luminary saw would require me to craft, at most, three thousand pieces of rosewood lumber. That's eighteen thousand shards.

Looking at some of the achievements I think some were designed to be accomplished in months or years, rather than weeks. I imagine it was intended that farming shards would be a simple way for anyone to make some gil, versus the current devalued state making it seem utterly ridiculous to imagine farming them yourself. For a bit after 2.0 it actually seemed like farming shards was the best way to make gil as it was the one item people were using like mad. I have to wonder how much different the economy in the game would have been if the bots hadn't really depressed the value of those shards, as it has made it seem to many people like they may as well be free as they haven't seemed a hurdle in the crafting process like was probably intended.

[Kyana]

This is probably ignorance on my part, but are the bots low level characters or are they high level characters?

My impression was people would roll up a level 1 and farm shards in low level zones, so I'd think that increasing shard yields for the 400 GP skills from the traits would make sense as the OP states. For example:

Ward I: Wards can now be used on Crystals. Increases shard yield by 2 (Shard +4; Crystals +2)
Ward II: Wards can now be used on Clusters. Increased shard/crystal yield by 1 (Shards +5; Crystals +3; Clusters +2)

Another option too could be to add node characteristics on the higher level nodes that increase crystal yield (I know I've seen this buff in Nophica for Shard yield). This would at least add a reason for farming Shards in higher level zones. As of now, there really is no incentive to farm shards in a level 40 node over a level 5 node.

The only problem is that bots could use this too.
I agree though, that making it faster and easier to farm shards might stop some people from buying the botted shards from AH. But I bet that shard prices would go down and people would just keep buying them.

That means it has to be a solution which makes it easier for players to farm shards, but harder for bots.
One way would be to improve rewards for leves. Instead of 15-60 shards, reward players with 100-200 shards for leves. Leve allowances serve as a limiter.

Passive skills or GP activities can be used by bots.
Dangerous mobs are no threat thanks to the stealth skill.

Honestly, I have no idea what SE could implement that makes gathering easier for players but doesn't make it easier for bots at the same time.
Bots own the whole shard market already and it seems like SE doesn't care at all.
None of the bots I reported got deleted yet. Some of them have been running for months now.

The only thing I can think of would be really dangerous gathering nodes which give 3-4 times the normal yield but require the player to pay attention.
Make nodes instable after a random number of gathering attempts. If you don't stop gathering and get away fast or if you hit the node while it's unstable, it will explode and kill you.
Place nodes higher above the ground, so the underground gathering bots can't reach them.
Let the node spawn a mob which can see through stealth and casts a debuff on you. If you move too far away from the node it will kill you.
Mimic nodes. If you click it to start gathering, it will spawn a rock golem or a treant which can see you even if stealthed and will instantly kill you if you don't get out of an AoE circle fast enough.

I think that's the only way to mess up bots. To make gathering require more reaction and attention from the player.


EDIT: GET RID OF THE RETARDED 1000 CHARACTER LIMIT!!!

[Gilthas]

Farming shards is boring as hell, but I can assure you that players would farm them to sell if the market hadn't been run into the ground by bots.

Any kind of farming is pretty much boring after a while.

[Simaril]

I don' know exaclty how bots work, but it seems like you could outsmart them by making farming more interactive and rewarding an intelligent human interaction while making the brainless fail. Disincentivize mindless botting. Incentivize thoughtful strategic farming or gathering.

Make shards show up in different depths? Add debris you have to clear? Allow an intelligent gatherer to gather many shards in the same time it takes a bot to gather far fewer?