PLEASE, stop teaching/telling new healers to DPS

[Darksword]

Even as a SCH I don't have enough MP to DD consistently in the lower instances. People are just missing too many tools:

>No overgearing
>Tanks lacking cooldowns
>No Lustrate
>Many times capped at 2 Aetherflows

I sometimes get lowish on MP just from healing alone. Trying to DD in anything below 50 is dumb, IMO.

[kasuke06]

How I DPS while I heal

Tank going to live for the next five seconds without giving one of us a heart attack(predictable spike damage/ low damage incoming) cleric stance, stoneII, Aero, back to normal, spam cure to full.

Not enough time for all that? lock tank, tab to boss during cure cast, aero, back to tank.

Otherwise: heal tank, assume DPS have their heads not planted firmly in their own ass and therefore me doing DPS will save us seconds at best so just make sure to top everyone off so no one panics and does something stupid.

In other words: if you can do so without the tank dipping past 50%(and therefore entering OH**** POP ALL CD'S mode) then sure, DPS a bit. otherwise? Trust the DPS, it's like their entire job description.

[Ashira]

You can summon Eos, set yourself to /follow on the tank, walk out of the room and come back when the Dungeon is complete. I'm not saying you should do this, I'm just saying you could. Eos or Selene hold their own during most non-raiding, non primal encounters.

I actually did this for the first boss of Amdapor Keep with my Company while I went to make coffee. It's pretty funny, though I wouldn't advise doing this with people you don't know. There is a lot of switching back and forth as a White Mage, but Scholars have it easy when it comes to healing and doing DPS at the same time; and they should take advantage of it.

[Lyrinn]

Even as a SCH I don't have enough MP to DD consistently in the lower instances. People are just missing too many tools:

>No overgearing
>Tanks lacking cooldowns
>No Lustrate
>Many times capped at 2 Aetherflows

I sometimes get lowish on MP just from healing alone. Trying to DD in anything below 50 is dumb, IMO.

I've been leveling almost solely off of dungeons and I've been DPSing all the way up to Cutter's Cry. Eos can solo heal pretty much anything below that point, so either you're not microing your faerie or you're doing something terribly wrong.

With that said, SCH is my second class so I'm more than likely judging unfairly. If you're not comfortable with it, then don't, but know it's very much possible.

[Jyoeru]

That pressure comes primarily from speed runners and is not representative of general attitudes. But if you are sitting at close to full MP with Shroud/Aetherflow up with a Regen or shield on the tank and you're just standing around and twiddling your thumbs, you're not using your time wisely. Plus Holy actually saves you a bit of healing because of the stun.

Again, the OP's issue is with bads being bads. If you're playing a healer and you prioritize DPS first, you're bad and you signed up for the wrong job. End of story. To say otherwise is the equivalent of telling people that exercise is good for you, some idiot overdoing it and passing out from exhaustion or dehydration, and then telling people to stop saying exercise is healthy (see how ridiculous that sounds?).

Eww. Did you really just say that Holy saves you some heals? Ewwwwwww. Stahp. Too expensive and the dmg output is so crappy now the only time I use holy is in Garuda EX. Saves heals. At a ridiculous cost.

I killed Twin

your still wrong

What's he wrong about? And what does killing X boss give you over every other healer in the game? What, you killed one of the end-game bosses and all the sudden you're the foremost expert on all things healing? What does his post have anything to do with your retort?

At the same time; a healer that does DPS and heals, without running out of MP is better than the healer that only heals. A healer doing DPS can in some cases be the difference between a clear and a wipe; notable cases are Titan's heart, Turn 4 and Garuda Extreme plumes. Any encounter with an enrage where every last drop of DPS is required is a time where your DPS could make the difference.

Nobody is saying DPS is more important than healing; a healer should NEVER compromise their healing for DPS; but when they are able, they would better the group to do so. This is the difference between bad healers, good healers and outstanding healers.

I DD all the time as a healer. I don't think I am outstanding. I hate it when I HAVE to DD to cover the slow or crappy DD butts. It makes me want to punch something, so I do. I go cleric mode, cast Stone II/Aero II/ Aero I/ Holy and punch stuff. Healers get so much grief over this stupid debate. It's the only class for which elitism exists beyond the class:

"You're a great healer if you heal and DD, you're okay if you heal, you're bad if you can't do either up to X standards."

You never really hear so much elitism spewed about tanks and DD. You're a great tank if you cureII spam and SS on yourself. You're a great DD if you self-heal and heal the party to help the healer out while they are DDing. Meh.

Do it if you can. You're not better or worse for doing so or not. If your party needs your DD to clear, get a new party.

I have never seen someone say "if a healer doesn't DPS they are not doing their jobs". What most of us have said (because it is simply true) is a healer who can properly DPS while healing and MP managing makes the difference between an average healer and a stellar healer.

Plenty of posts to the contrary.

I'm still a low level healer (35 whm). I try to dps while in dungeons, not because I don't want to heal, but because I think the whm job is designed with dpsing included in it, since we have Cleric Stance, dots and a couple nukes.

However, I don't really understand that design.
I consider Cleric Stance more an annoyance than an asset.
I need cleric stance to put dots on, but it sucks to hinder my reactivity to be able to perform a basic task like dotting.
And I don't need nuking, I do it because I have to go into Cleric stance for dots.

If I just ignore cleric stance in dungeons, I'll spend some time... doing nothing.

Cleric Stance is easy to use when everything goes right and pretty much wipes the party when something goes wrong.
I feel it punishes me too hard if I make a mistake or if someone else makes a mistake... yet I have to use it because the job is build around it.

I disagree. I think it was set up for leveling. Could you imagine leveling with just healer stats? Sure, it can help pass time in boring dungeons, and give you something to do besides simple whack-a-mole (ever run through AK just healing with SS/Regen in cleric stance because your tank was highly padded?), but to indicate that the class is designed around it is to indicate that the mechanics require it, and that is patently wrong. IMHO.

Stoneskin is full potency during cleric stance too. Sch is the master of cleric stance healing XD. Whm is much better for WP speed runs due to holy.



As healers get more confident in their abilities they will start to dps more.

My static tank said to me . That he notices that good or experienced healers will often let him fall to low hp but bad or new healers will keep him 100% all times.

I let my tanks fall to 10% all the time because I get the flow of the fight and know what and when to start casting stuff most of the time. Healers that keep a tank to full are not bad (maybe new or scared to do anything but heal). That's a bad attitude to have.

If healers aren't attacking when they can be, they aren't playing their class to their full potential. Fact. And I'm not going suddenly say it's false because a few dummies don't know the basics.

Ugh. False. We place such ridiculous burdens on healers in this game, and when someone speaks to the contrary, the counter-argument goes something like:

"Well, uh, if DD don't use their DD CDs for burst, and if the durka durrrrrr tank doesn't use his prot CDs for incoming mega damage, then they fail, so if all players durrrrrrrrrrr burp play like you (slacker healer not DDing) then hurrr-durrrr you're a bad healerrrrrrrrrrr derp."

No. Just no. Stop. Not true. Telling a healer to assume two roles while managing your health and their mana perfectly is not "playing to full potential," and does not compare (not that YOU argued this, but most people do) to the full potential of a DD class doing damage or a tank mitigating it. If you're maxing DD, you're doing it right. If you're holding hate and mitigating damage, you're doing it right. If you're keeping everyone alive (within the confines of their ability to avoid stupid damage), you're doing it right. Doing anything more than that is just an added bonus and should be praised not demanded.

Your sentiments are exactly what OP was addressing, BTW.

Whenever I see, "my group wiped at X% because I didn't dps as a healer" it shows to me that your team was either not good at their classes or their gear was not right for the instance and they shouldn't be there.

This all day this. Nothing in this game is designed around the healers spamming damage. Nothing. Sorry, nothing.

I was in Garuda EX today, and had bard yell at me to "moar holy haz mana song" and I was like... dude, stop attacking the plumes I am killing (a) and (b) I shouldn't *have* to DPS, but I will because I can. But if I don't and we wiped, it was not my fault. And they never accept that point. Never.

Just like people who think you have to build LB on Titan, and that healers should be DDing heart phase.

Talk about people wanting to be carried.....

[Lyrinn]

Eww. Did you really just say that Holy saves you some heals? Ewwwwwww. Stahp. Too expensive and the dmg output is so crappy now the only time I use holy is in Garuda EX. Saves heals. At a ridiculous cost.

Thanks for taking it out of context. Want to see how ridiculous your posts sound if I do the same?

[Ashira]

Do it if you can. You're not better or worse for doing so or not. If your party needs your DD to clear, get a new party.

If they need you to clear the encounter, you're right; the DPS are probably undergeared or dead too often to make a difference. You are however helping your DPS out by doing DPS as a healer, which is a good thing; which makes you better than those that don't. If you're slacking as a healer in order to DPS, then you're doing it wrong, but if you're able to do both at the same time; great!

Garuda Extreme comes to mind often when I talk about this. Even post nerf, no other DPS comes close to matching up with Holy AoE DPS; and it takes out those plumes in no time, so that they can concentrate on the Satin Plume. Do you need to use Holy? Of course not. Does it help the group? Yes.

[Jyoeru]

Thanks for taking it out of context. Want to see how ridiculous your posts sound if I do the same?

Took what out of context? It was a direct quote. You said that. I disagree. The expense isn't worth the so-called benefit for the most part. The stun isn't anything to write home about either.

If they need you to clear the encounter, you're right; the DPS are probably undergeared or dead too often to make a difference. You are however helping your DPS out by doing DPS as a healer, which is a good thing; which makes you better than those that don't. If you're slacking as a healer in order to DPS, then you're doing it wrong, but if you're able to do both at the same time; great!

Garuda Extreme comes to mind often when I talk about this. Even post nerf, no other DPS comes close to matching up with Holy AoE DPS; and it takes out those plumes in no time, so that they can concentrate on the Satin Plume. Do you need to use Holy? Of course not. Does it help the group? Yes.

I don't disagree with trying to do all you can. Then again, now that I am leveling a tank and DD, I can state that most healers don't have a clue how to heal (which I can also say just from healing experience with another healer). I just prefer we not give people labels based on the extra extra stuff they do. Soon enough it becomes expected. Fine for me, I do the extra stuff. Bad for community, imo.

[Lyrinn]

Took what out of context? It was a direct quote. You said that. I disagree. The expense isn't worth the so-called benefit for the most part. The stun isn't anything to write home about either.

You can spam Cures on your tank all day in a WP SR or you can spam Holy and DPS down the mobs faster while not having to worry about the heals because they're all stunned. Take your pick. Or was that not part of "context" to you?

No. Just no. Stop. Not true. Telling a healer to assume two roles while managing your health and their mana perfectly is not "playing to full potential," and does not compare (not that YOU argued this, but most people do) to the full potential of a DD class doing damage or a tank mitigating it. If you're maxing DD, you're doing it right. If you're holding hate and mitigating damage, you're doing it right. If you're keeping everyone alive (within the confines of their ability to avoid stupid damage), you're doing it right. Doing anything more than that is just an added bonus and should be praised not demanded.

That's because healer is the only role that has the potential to stand around and not do its job for periods of time. If a tank grabs aggro and just stands there (and assuming he doesn't lose it), he's still tanking the mob. DPS is, well, always DPSing. If people are topped off and not taking much damage, what are you going to do? Just stand there and watch until someone's hp drops to 75%? Note that I'm not talking about all fights as this obviously isn't the case but there are a number of fights that are not healing intensive; one regen and/or one medica II is enough to keep everyone happy. Not only that, but just standing around is boring. As I like to say, healing is boring when no one is dying.

And in case you don't read about the other roles, people bash on the same things. A BLM that doesn't use a proper rotation to maximise DPS will get flak for wasting potential. A tank that's far ahead on aggro and doesn't SS spike damage is wasting potential.

Holy takes out what, like 2% of each mob's health?

Do you even SR?

[Jyoeru]

You can spam Cures on your tank all day in a WP SR or you can spam Holy and DPS down the mobs faster while not having to worry about the heals because they're all stunned. Take your pick. Or was that not part of "context" to you?

My reply was in context. Holy takes out what, like 2% of each mob's health? I had a group the other day for WP run, and they pulled large, and I was dancing between cures and cleric SS and Holy spam. Drank my mana, and with like 7 holys, I felt like there was no point. Not worth it.

Now, again, Garuda EX plumes, 3x holy = plume down. Fine. Do it then. But that's about the only time. You're better off having solid AOE for those other runs and then casting Stone II/Aero on single targets. Oh, you CAN and SHOULD holy the adds on 2nd WP boss. 3x holy there = most/all adds down. Fine. But that's not the norm.

I still had to dance cures and holys. So, no, 7x holy in a row (a) doesn't effectively mitigate damage with the stun and (b) doesn't do enough damage to get excited about and (c) drinks WAY too much mana. Not worth it IMO.