Any of the warriors here having trouble finding a PT for Coil T2?

[Hanabira]

Want to take that back?

Pld reduces enemy's str by 10%, while maybe not AS good, but they work wonders together. It is also a bit unfair to compare a core tanking ability to a utility ability. Pld can both silence, and as-needed stun, PLD is better at solo tanking T2 (for all you enrage mode people) as it doesnt require 2 brds to be there. PLD is almost required for HM ifrit (because people dont want to dodge cracks) as well as off-tanking twintania because they can repeatedly stun dreads whereas war can only do it once. Point is, there are a couple things war just cant do but there is nothing a pld cant do. but i will say, WAY better than we were before.

To properly implement 2 jobs that have the same role, one of them should have utility that the other doesnt have. IE, pld have at will silence, war have at will stun. Currently, pld is a perfect tank, and war is still just viable in most cases. The 2 jobs should compliment each other, and together form a perfect tank. They are kinda doing that with the 2 tank debuffs

[Shamirah]

War are fine. You can play War on all the fight. You can play PLD on all the fight.

It's fine.

[Hanabira]

War are fine. You can play War on all the fight. You can play PLD on all the fight.

It's fine.

War does not eliminate the need for anything else though, all it does is tank. like T2 since it is on topic. If you bring 2 wars, you need to have 2 bards. if you bring 2 plds, you need 0 brds because pld provides great tanking ability with bard's utility. Newer groups to T5 would have alot of trouble with twister phase without a pld repeatedly stunning (who is both tank and high utility), and i havent seen anyone do ifrit HM without a pld. Granted that isnt war's fault.. people just expect every crack to be stunned and dont move.

[Cassius]

Grab two bards, or one pld and one brd. Warriors cannot silence, that's all you're wanting actually and I don't really want us to be able to silence. We can stun which is already fine. And by the way, I haven't tried yet, but I suppose Warriors can now stun Ifrit for Eruptions on Hard Mode since the cooldown has been lowered.

[Hanabira]

All i want is for the 2 jobs to compliment each other better. So like... pld is GCD silence and off-GCD long cooldown stun, and war have off-GCD silence and GCD stun. so they can DO both, but do 1 way better than the other. or just give one to pld and 1 to war. you cant have a highly capable tank with high CC utility and another tank that just tanks and may be able to toss a stun here and there. It isnt balanced.

But like i said, im very happy with the changes to war and if this is the only complaint, its doing very well. But there needs to be some balance tweaking. To put it into perspective, WHM and SCH play very differently, but there is no case where one of them wasnt invited to a group because they needed something specific from the other.

[DaysMetherlence]

....To properly implement 2 jobs that have the same role, one of them should have utility that the other doesnt have. IE, pld have at will silence, war have at will stun. Currently, pld is a perfect tank, and war is still just viable in most cases. The 2 jobs should compliment each other, and together form a perfect tank. They are kinda doing that with the 2 tank debuffs

I like this train of thought. I personally try to run all my coil groups with a pally/war combo and a Whm/Sch combo (since we are on the topic of complementing classes).
I will agree that as a pally I do have a lot of utility. I think a good fix for this would be a simple ability swap.... Pallys ability to stun at will with the warriors CD stun (or make us both have CD's)
I dont think that a silence works with warriors simply because your job really has nothing to do magic whereas as a paladin we have some magic ability.

I would also like to add one last thing. As stated i do think that there needs to be a bit more done with warrior to make them a more viable tank for certain fights however i do not agree that just because a paladin can silence that a warrior should be able to silence. Giving one job/class an ability because another has it is one reason that MMO's (For me atleast) get so boring. Jobs have specific roles that they fill. A warrior should not fill all of the same roles as a paladin and vice versa. Although right now it is a fact that paladins CAN fill the same roles as a Warrior and that does need to be fixed

[Talynia]

Snip

Just make your own party for T2 if you're having a hard time finding one. One pld and one bard shouldn't have too hard of a time with ADS.

[Appleh4x]

I solo tank T2 almost every week as WAR. Last week was the first time we had a PLD with us, and I just switched to dps gear and we still just destroyed it np.

War does not eliminate the need for anything else though, all it does is tank. like T2 since it is on topic. If you bring 2 wars, you need to have 2 bards. if you bring 2 plds, you need 0 brds because pld provides great tanking ability with bard's utility. Newer groups to T5 would have alot of trouble with twister phase without a pld repeatedly stunning (who is both tank and high utility), and i havent seen anyone do ifrit HM without a pld. Granted that isnt war's fault.. people just expect every crack to be stunned and dont move.

Also have solo tanked Ifrit HM as WAR, several times. Even when our stun was 30 secs.

[Hanabira]

I would also like to add one last thing. As stated i do think that there needs to be a bit more done with warrior to make them a more viable tank for certain fights however i do not agree that just because a paladin can silence that a warrior should be able to silence. Giving one job/class an ability because another has it is one reason that MMO's (For me atleast) get so boring. Jobs have specific roles that they fill. A warrior should not fill all of the same roles as a paladin and vice versa. Although right now it is a fact that paladins CAN fill the same roles as a Warrior and that does need to be fixed

Yes thats why there are 2 options depending on how the game turns out. Either give one of the abilities to each tank, or let them do 1 well and have limited use of the other. But you make a great point about war's and magic.

I solo tank T2 almost every week as WAR. Last week was the first time we had a PLD with us, and I just switched to dps gear and we still just destroyed it np.

Let me guess, you solo tanked it with 2 bards right? I didnt say that warrior CANT do these things, just that pld can do these things far easier, and without added outside assistance. Its just a balance thing, nothing game breaking. Its just a little strange that 1 job can do everything on its own and the other needs support from multiple other players. This is not the case with any healing or dps jobs

[KogaDrake]

Anyone who does not want a WAR in 2.1 is ignorant and likely someone you do not want to be running with in the first place. If this was 2.0, then maybe they might have some reason to say they didn't want a WAR as they were weaker (even though they were fine for all content, some needed to be paired with a PLD).

So lets talk individual fights:


Ifrit HM, 2.1's change to stun resistance means no need for PLD off tank to spam stuns. WAR as only tank is fine for this now.

Garuda HM, WAR have been solo tanking this since 2.0 with a single healer so no need to talk about this.

Titan HM, WAR been fine always for this also, but with the added ability to time IB for mountain busters, I'd prefer a WAR who knows the fight.

T1, any 2 tanks are fine for Snake, potentially want a PLD for silence for mini ADS but 2brds or a mnk can handle this if have 2WAR

T2, ok I agree 2WAR would need 2BRD so this is a fight you likely would always WAR/PLD fight. People can say they dont want WAR since its easier for silence, but lets be honest, anyone who so wants easy mode will have 5 ranged for this fight and likely at least 1 BRD so WAR/PLD is fine. its actually easiest for 2BRD to do the silencing (if you can find 2 brds, which is often hard), so once again why no WAR?

T4, WAR is the better off tank in this fight imo and is very capable of MT since 2.1 so why no WAR?

T5, WAR brings alot more burst DPS then pld for things like conflags if OT, and with +25% HP and -20% dmg (inner beast) timed for each death sentance and contant upkeap of storms path (-10% dmg) a skilled WAR is arguably the better MT for this fight also.

Garuda Em, any 2 tanks work and no real reason to prefer one tank over the other; OT has a very easy job and any tank works, even undergeared.

Titan Em, most people seem to think WAR is better OT in picking up adds, and with the timing of IB just like in HM makes WAR very nice in the fight. No reason to exclude, but I do find WAR/PLD to be best here.

Ifrit Em, IMO WARS are better tanks in this fight because of the debuff. PLD Max HP get very low while a WAR's MAX HP with 4stacks is still above that of a PLD with 0 or 1 stack, and timed IB for when breaths come (scripted so easy to know when to use IB) also gives the -20% dmg that pld have from Shield Oath for the breath attacks. Add in -10% dmg on top of that and WAR shine in this fight. The only advantage PLD have here is the ability to use hollowed ground durring the final nail phase to make the healers life easier in the most hectic part of the fight, but that's not required by any means.

CT/Ultima - joke fights so no reason to discuss specific tanks in this area