Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW

[Dale]

you need to look at this as a brand new game
.

I'm not going to look at it as a brand new game because it's not a brand new game. Simple as that.

[Gideon]

No he isn't.

He said SE shouldn't compete with themselves for subscriptions. Yet the release of Final Fantasy 14 has hurt the population of Final Fantasy 11 dramatically. So that is exactly what they have done.

Yes, they are different games. But they are still both Final Fantasy games, and they are essentially competing with themselves for subscriptions. It was a flawed argument that collapsed on itself.

Since 2003 FFXI hasnt peaked passed 300,000 subs. It averaged 200,000. Do you have numbers to support your claim? Or is it anecdotal? How do you know it's FFXIV and not people getting tired of the 10 year old game? Every time a new MMO comes out even WoW sees a dip in subs, which they (mostly) regain when they release a new expat. But they aren't in the same lore as WoW, how do you explain that?

Unfortunately your argument is the flawed one.

[Dale]

Since 2003 FFXI hasnt peaked passed 300,000 subs. It averaged 200,000. Do you have numbers to support your claim? Or is it anecdotal? How do you know it's FFXIV and not people getting tired of the 10 year old game? Every time a new MMO comes out even WoW sees a dip in subs, which they (mostly) regain when they release a new expat. But they aren't in the same lore as WoW, how do you explain that?

Unfortunately your argument is the flawed one.

It's obvious.

If you played Final Fantasy 11 you would know. The game turned into a ghost town after Final Fantasy 14 was released. It has started to pick up some lately. But there is no denying that the release of Final Fantasy 14 has hurt Final Fantasy 11.

And no, unfortunately your argument is the flawed one. Because it denies reality, and pretends releasing a newer online Final Fantasy game is not going to affect the subscriptions of the older one. So they are already competing with themselves for subscriptions, no matter what you and mageblack may think.

[LordSaviour]

No he isn't.

He said SE shouldn't compete with themselves for subscriptions. Yet the release of Final Fantasy 14 has hurt the population of Final Fantasy 11 dramatically. So that is exactly what they have done.

Yes, they are different games. But they are still both Final Fantasy games, and they are essentially competing with themselves for subscriptions. It was a flawed argument that collapsed on itself.

I think this was done by design. They expected FFXI to die with FFXIV. I remember that Wings of the Goddess was supposed to be the last expansion. Shortly after XIV failed and they started to develop Abyssea and now they have another brand new expansion.

To think SE didn't expect the two MMO titles to compete with each other is absurd. . .

[Arkh]

XIV = WoW in a final fantasy skinsuit.
Has the potential to be a decent mmo, but they have already started to make the classical retarded SE choices that usually kills the user base.
They want to copy a working western model, they nearly nail it and yet they still do nonsense choice like the EU server in canada, fights latency based, non existant and anti economical changes (housing), pve content locks (armory system killed), incomprensible changes to pve class based on an attempt to balance an impossible to balance pvp... yeah the classical SE stuffs. Thats a shame

[Dale]

I think this was done by design. They expected FFXI to die with FFXIV. I remember that Wings of the Goddess was supposed to be the last expansion. Shortly after XIV failed and they started to develop Abyssea and now they have another brand new expansion.

To think SE didn't expect the two MMO titles to compete with each other is absurd. . .

I know it was absurd to think that. That was my point and why I was disagreeing with those other two.

As to your initial points, perhaps. I do not know the mind of SE so I'm not even going to go there.

EDITED**

Well... since I seem to be out of my daily posts... I will answer a few directed at me here then call it.

To Gideon and Magelback: You two were trying to justify the WoW-like design of Final Fantasy 14 by saying they did it because they did not want to compete with themselves for subscriptions. The problem with this theory is that it is and already has damaged Final Fantasy 11. It's not a red herring.... or a strawman. I was pointing out how little sense this defense made.

It's basically like Lord Savior said. To think that they wouldn't compete with another, seeing as they are both Final Fantasy games is just absurd. They are, will, and have already competed with one another for subscriptions. So that's not a good reason to turn your game into WoW.

To Lord Savior:
Yes, they re-designed many aspects of the game. But it still isn't a brand new game. I don't know what else to tell you.

[LordSaviour]

I'm not going to look at it as a brand new game because it's not a brand new game. Simple as that.

It is a brand new game. How is it not? The completely redid the UI, the mechanics, the way you obtain loot, the stats on loot, even the skills and classes are now filling different roles. Fates, Duty Finder, changing leves, redoing map lay outs and zones. Changing the Market Systems. Changing the recipes for what it take to make items. Completely redoing DoH DoL.

They spent all their time remaking a game that was already released.

They did not have time to introduce an abundance new content yet.

If it quacks like a duck ......

[Gideon]

My point isnt what SE thought. My point is how Dale is arguing it. When its convenient he wants to state they are too different of games (and that's bad), but when it isn't convenient then SE is competing with itself and gutting FFXI (because they're the same, and that's bad). Either way, the release of FFXIV is bad.

[MageBlack]

Lol or you could just admit that SE is already competing with themselves for subscriptions so your argument made no sense

Only in the sense that is has the Final Fantasy name and it is an MMO. In that context it is also competing with every other MMO out there and all the previous Final Fantasies. When ARR came out there was also a drop in subs for most other MMO's, just like the release of any new MMO. You are trying to build a strawman around special pleading to get your point across. I think you have much stronger grounds to get things you would like in the game than following this red herring.

Just trying to help you build a better argument.

[Gideon]

Still though, at both of their peaks, FFXIV has had 5 times more subscriptions than FFXI (300,000 vs 1.5M) despite being on one-less platform (PC, Xbox 360, PS2 vs PC, PS3) and one of them having 10 years and multiple expansions to gain a sub base. How can anyone possibly argue the changes are bad?