@ WHM who stoneskin whole party

[TurnBased]

lol. I used to stop doing this in fights like Turn 2 or King Behemoth where the constant damage to everyone will remove stoneskin in seconds and MedicaII would be a better choice. But then people would yell out, "Stoneskin please!", or the other SCH/WHM/tank will then start casting Stoneskin.

So even if SS will be useless to the fight, I cast it anyway just to give people a sense of security and peace of mind.

[Jyoeru]

Those saying it's a waste of time just don't get the first rule of healing: Better safe than sorry.




Except: The only target that should need any cure at all from you as a WHM (assuming there's a SCH in the party) is the MT. The SCH's healing does more than enough and you can, get this, use that 1000 MP you say will 'regen before I need it anyway' in CS DDing Garuda.

Because I am a healer? I still need to cast a heal or so, so if I am spamming DPS during that part, I am not saving the mana for when I need it? The only heal the MT needs for that is a regen, anyway. But, I suppose you make an exceptional point here. Cast SS 500x on a fight so I can spam DD abilities and negate the saved mana the SS brings. Kosher!

Not only that: How many times have you missed someone with that Cure III. Because if you cast it right before she disappears, Melee and Tanks are out of range, if you cast it when people stack and hide...very rarely does everyone stack on the same side. (which yeah shame on them, but healers adjust to the party)

Meh. All non-tanks ranged party or move along. I mean, if we're going to min/max, then that's my stance, anyway.

Oh and as to calling it a pointless preheal: I can actually keep my WAR tank friend alive on many low-heal things in full Cleric's stance with just SS's. Single-target 18% damage mitigation is nothing to sneeze at. And the pro to SS is unless I am missing something, unlike your cures, it's not effected by CS. So you can even cast it without having to go in and out of CS like you do with a cure. Does this work for everything? No. But it can eat a crap-ton of damage you're not giving it any credit for.

I do this in dungeons all the time!!! I totally get its value. Just not interested in it for a lot of the 8-man content. That 30 seconds we are spending waiting for me--the only player who has to cast 9 buffs before we start--could be spent on the fight learning the mechanics. Most of the mechanics on any boss are not game-breaking should you not enter the fight with stoneskin.

And no, making it party wide would either gimp it or give WHM something too similar to SCH's tool kit. It's fine single target.

Fair enough.

As to the attitude: 'well they're learning they're just gonna wipe anyway' How would you like it if DD's and Tanks took that attitude. Oh, it doesn't matter if I get out of the AoE damage, we're just practicing anyway...Oh who cares if I did the proper rotation...wear the proper gear...use my Defense cooldowns effectively.... Part of the learning curve IS knowing how much damage is going to happen to everyone in each phase of the battle. SE gives WHMs (and SCH's) a tool that helps them keep their hate low and basically gives every party member a 'free hit'. Why wouldn't you take a couple seconds (time when people are chatting anyway) to just prebuff the inevitable?

You're comparing a pre-fight mechanic to all in-fight mechanics. Hardly reasonable. I am not talking about not healing people in a fight, I am talking about the efficiency vs. value of a spell before most fights. The hassle of casting stoneskin on all targets before the 20 wipes most DF-type parties are guaranteed to have is just lackluster for me. That's my prerogative, and I have a right to it. I SS the tanks before the pull, and frankly, that's good enough for many fights like this!

If it was so bloody pointless, every SCH and tank I know wouldn't be casting it so much.

The tank can cast it if he wants--makes sense. A SCH casting it is a complete waste of mana and time, imo. Doing so before is absolutely a waste, especially if your wonderful WHM is casting their buffed version on everyone.

And yes, in dungeons I have SS on the tank before every pull...every time, last mob has 10-15% health I'm casting SS so tank without missing a beat can grab next set, Why? Because that gives me about 10 seconds where I can Repose/DD/virus or chill until they need a heal. I have SS on the party before they enter the boss room in every dungeon as well...again pre-casting during last mob before entrance's dead.

I wasn't talking about dungeons. I am talking about 8-man content. Different animals.

So maybe, instead of saying it's a time-eater or wasteful spell, learn to time your usage better.

I have no idea what "learn to time your usage better" means. It's a pointless precast for most of the 8-man content as a blanket precast. You can't change my mind on this. A lot of people see it my way; a lot see it your way. I am just chiming in to show support for the OP's view on this particular instance of using it. Complete pointless time sink before fights like Garuda.

[Sunah]

Why does it matter? You guys are crying because people get something else to click? People are watching cut scenes and chatting it up before a pull anyway so what the hell does it matter if someone puts up a ss on everyone. If you don't like you just right click it off you.

[Lemuria]

Has anyone mentioned the fact that adding Stoneskin onto players with full HP is effectively giving them spare HP in case they get hit by a powerful attack? No? Well, I guess I just did then. I always Stoneskin players, even during certain fights, because that extra buffer can be the difference between getting 1-shot by a strong attack or living to fight on. I've never had anyone complain about getting stoneskin, so I guess the OP is one of the minority... or just a troll.

[DreamWeaver]

For future posters/debaters, please be aware that the OP is saying SSing everybody pre-combat is useless, he is not saying SS during combat/in general is worthless, thank you .

Regarding precasting SS.... Personally I'll just SS the tanks and myself, and tell the tank's we're good to go, but while I'm waiting (maybe the tank is adjusting his seat, yawning, talking to his/her mom....I dunno), I will continue to SS everybody else, once combat starts, then I'll stop SS (Combat Regen is slowwwww).

On an unrelated note, how I wish SS can become an off GCD instant cast skill with suitable cooldown (20 seconds maybe?), it will add sooooooooooo much utility for WHMs .

[Sebazy]

Hiya, it has it's place, it's debatable but it's useful for all three extreme primals:

Garuda EM: It'll generally last on the melee till wicked wheels, I tend to keep it on them to avoid instakills if they lose track of when they need to get clear.

Titan EM: Safety blanket for the first set of plumes whilst people get into the groove.

Ifrit EM: Stops people getting knocked straight back out again by the opening vulcan blast.

Not to mention, if I'm in a pug, it's a threat headstart that can be rather necessary sadly.

[Hitome]

You're really assuming things here. In Titan HM, not every tank is super geared, what if you're helping a tank get their relic? Do you know how hard it is for a tank that isn't relic to keep aggro from a fully geared healer? That stoneskin in the beginning allows the WHM to skip a Medica (assuming theres a SCH in the party who can Succor it) effectively lowering their hate in the beginning considerably. What if you're solo healing? (Which is very possible for a geared WHM to do, if there's a Bard in the party) That stoneskin prevents a Medica, you can instead wait until the next tumults or jump. Solo healing WHMs draw MASSIVE aggro, and every bit counts. But you wouldn't know, considering your WHM isn't 50 yet.

Do you know how many times I run Titan HM DF a day? Or look for PF groups doing Titan on my SCH? This is not just an issue where you think I've seen it a couple times and have misjudged WHMs completely: this occurs quite frequently.

I am almost always stuck solo healing post heart because the other healer ends up dead.

The stoneskin in the beginning is actually just a waste of time and a crutch: similar to building LB. If you need to build LB on Titan, you are not ready for Titan. If you need to stoneskin pre-pull on Titan, your healers are not ready for Titan. It's really as simple as that.

We never were discussing solo healing Titan HM. If I wanted a class to solo heal Titan HM, I'd take a SCH over a WHM due to all the issues you just brought up (which are really non-issues for most competent WHMs).

Yes solo healing WHM draws massive aggro when you play it like trash just like how my Eos draws massive aggro when I use a rouse'd whispering dawn when the party is already near full HP. The overhealing generates a crap ton of aggro. Same for medica 2.

It isn't a hard issue. SCHs deal with it by splitting threat between the fairy and themselves. WHM have this lovely ability called shroud which serves two purposes.

My alt's WHM is actually 50. I heal, on my SCH, with competent WHMs who have no issues with threat and don't stoneskin pre-pull because they realize it isn't needed on Titan.

I list a crap ton of fights where I think stoneskin pre-pull is worth it and ones where it isn't. Titan is not one of them.

I don't think stoneskin pre-pull is all useless: I think on certain fights it is, though.

Stating that you think SCHs don't have to deal with mana issues or threat is hilarious. Get YOUR SCH to 50 before talking about healing from a SCH PoV. Meanwhile, my WHM alt and SCH main will continue to heal DF Titan HM without incident.

Except for the fact that you effectively just wasted 1000 MP vs waiting a mere 24 seconds to cast SS on everyone before the fight for 0 MP.

This is the point we're trying to get through your thick skull: that MP is irrelevant. If you are running into MP issues on either healer, you have certain things to look at:

1) People are dying and you are having to res frequently (not a healer issue)
2) You are bad and spamming AoE heals when you don't need to be
3) You are shrouding when you shouldn't be, wasting mana regeneration because you pulled hate spamming medica like a dolt instead of letting the other healer pick up the slack

Edit: Why am I not surprised? Half the WHMs who have posted in this thread have done nothing relevant in terms of endgame healing.

[Lanceton]

Unless the fight is going to be intense and it's possible to go OOM, pre-fight stone shields make sense, otherwise it's pointless ya.
the damage mitigation of your stone shields are only about 1 Medica cast plus some tickes from regen on tanks, if this bit of mana is going to make any difference in your fights, you might as well just find another group.
imo under most circumstances pre-cast stone shield is not worth everybody's 24 seconds. (you can cast them if the group's not ready, but if the group's ready, just stop it)

[Maelwys]

This is the point we're trying to get through your thick skull: that MP is irrelevant.

>.<

Chiming in, just a little... MP isn't an issue on fights where people are playing well and not taking much damage. This much is true. You can pretty much spam lower-level Cures to your hearts content and never run out of MP, and if you have to occasionally spike a few more powerful Heals and AOE Cures then Shroud keeps you well topped up. However for certain fights, AoE Healspam or Cure II spam can end up being needed, which cuts into your MP reserve quite drastically. This is usually either due to silly fight mechanics (Ultima EM? Turn 2 0-click method? Sirens's Non-esuna-able Healing debuffs?) or people being unable to dodge stuff due to inexperience or lag (Feathers + a 2x Wicked Wheel is a good example). Normally a Bard can keep you covered, but sometimes there's no bard or you're in the middle of a DPS-check phase where using Ballad would be detrimental (Turn4/5?).

I agree that Pre-buffing Stoneskin is not needed for certain content. And that you could potentially take that notion to extremes and make the same case for Protect or Food or even up-to-date gear. I just like having it there in case brown stuff hits the air circulator because the cost of putting it up is very very small and you don't need to wait for everyone to be gathered together before you start. I guess it's a min/max thing - some people enjoy trying to get the highest possible performance out of their classes whether it ends up making a difference in the end or not. It might not usually mean the difference between wiping and succeeding, but it gives you a slight extra buffer to work with (quite literally in Stoneskin's case!)

[Sunah]

Honestly..... if people are just sitting there waiting... why the hell does it matter if the healer decides to throw a ss on someone.... You make it seem like its a bad thing to have it up before the pull. Like oh shit now we are going to wipe because the tank has an ss on him pre pull gg noobs. Please take your QQs somewhere else or at least come up with something that makes sense to cry about.