@ WHM who stoneskin whole party

[Hitome]

Depends on fight. Most of the time it's a waste, similar to succor pre pull.

Garuda Ex? No thanks.

ifrit Ex? Stoneskin please so we don't get knocked back on first vulcan burst.

Titan HM/Ex? No thanks. You're just wasting my time when it falls off on the first tumult.

T1 Caduceus? Yep.

Turn 2 ADS? Nope.

Turn 4? Nope.

Twintania? Yes, please. It helps the healers quite a bit in the beginning.

[Judge_Xero]

Arg, phone wont let me quote.
@Avette - not sure if you using the context of any other class besides WHM using stoneskin but with the WHM trait it's 18% of max HP. So between 700-1600 depending who you use it on. It also stacks with defensive buffs. So if a PLD with 6k HP using CD's to negate 40% damage gets SS then it is worth almost 2k damage. With Shield Oath and Sentinel it's worth 3k damage.

[NintenPyjak64]

Titan HM/Ex? No thanks. You're just wasting my time when it falls off on the first tumult.

Wasting your time stone skinning pre-fight? guess what, it would be an even BIGGER waste of time if I steal hate with that one or two extra Medica(s) and cause people to panic

[Hitome]

Wasting your time stone skinning pre-fight? guess what, it would be an even BIGGER waste of time if I steal hate with that one or two extra Medica(s) and cause people to panic

You're one of those useless WHMs who starts casting medica 2 right after a big AoE when whispering dawn is already on everyone and everyone is at 85%, aren't you? If you pull aggro on Titan Ex with one medica, your tanks are doing something wrong.

Also, know what shroud is? No? Sounds about right.

Edit: My apologies: looks like you don't do Titan Ex.

[NintenPyjak64]

You're one of those useless WHMs who doesn't look to see if whispering dawn is on or succor is being casted by the other healer, aren't you? If you pull aggro on Titan Ex with one medica, your tanks are doing something wrong.

Also, know what shroud is? No? Sounds about right.

Please read. I said "one or two extra Medica(s)" When in Titan HM I'm juggling 3rd to 5th place agro and I never need shroud to reset hate, I'd feel it's better used for the MP regen. Please don't assume my playstyle when you >CLEARLY< don't know. The attitude you're giving off is not helping either

[Hitome]

Please read. I said "one or two extra Medica(s)" When in Titan HM I'm juggling 3rd to 5th place agro and I never need shroud to reset hate, I'd feel it's better used for the MP regen. Please don't assume my playstyle when you >CLEARLY< don't know. The attitude you're giving off is not helping either

I really hate WHMs like you. You're a healer who doesn't coordinate/watch the other healer to perform complimentary actions. Instead, taking it upon yourself to do the work of both healers.

As a SCH, the first thing I do on phase 1 tumults is cast succor. This means all you need to do is cast medica. Do you medica twice like an incompetent WHM? Why would I assume anything about your playstyle when you've told me exactly what you do.

He tumults several times during phase 1 which can all be handled with 1 medica and 1 succor or 1 medica from each WHM or two succors. Not once do you have to cast more than medica 1 before post-heart death.

I would really like another trait for WHMs that allows you to cast an AoE version of stoneskin outside of combat: similar to the SCH version in FF11. When doing multiple attempts on a learning fight like Titan Ex, it's such a waste of time to wait for stoneskin when tanks never have aggro issues and the first tumult can be covered by one medica and one succor/rous'd whispering dawn.

[JonFarron]

*teeth and fangs*

You're really assuming things here. In Titan HM, not every tank is super geared, what if you're helping a tank get their relic? Do you know how hard it is for a tank that isn't relic to keep aggro from a fully geared healer? That stoneskin in the beginning allows the WHM to skip a Medica (assuming theres a SCH in the party who can Succor it) effectively lowering their hate in the beginning considerably. What if you're solo healing? (Which is very possible for a geared WHM to do, if there's a Bard in the party) That stoneskin prevents a Medica, you can instead wait until the next tumults or jump. Solo healing WHMs draw MASSIVE aggro, and every bit counts. But you wouldn't know, considering your WHM isn't 50 yet.

Get your WHM to 50 before you start trashing WHMs. Unfortunately, we actually have a mana bar and have to manage hate unlike Scholars.

I stopped doing it except for MT during 8-man content. As OP says, however impolitely he may have so done, it is a huge time sink, and frequently unnecessary. I had someone tell me to SS during Garuda EX, and I told them my cure III was more than enough to deal with the aoe heal need for the first part of that fight. I'd rather cast two Cure IIIs up front to heal when needed than to cast 8x stoneskin every time we start the fight. Nothing wrong with that.

Except for the fact that you effectively just wasted 1000 MP vs waiting a mere 24 seconds to cast SS on everyone before the fight for 0 MP.

[Jyoeru]

Except for the fact that you effectively just wasted 1000 MP vs waiting a mere 24 seconds to cast SS on everyone before the fight for 0 MP.

Where's your proof? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Let me walk you through my logic here:

Fight starts. 15 seconds later, she AOEs. One Cure III gets everyone up to full. Nothing more to do until after she jumps. Mana is up to full.

Let me clarify my point a little: if there is a clear benefit to fully casting SS on the whole party beforehand, and I am not in a DF pug, I will do it. Otherwise, no thanks. I don't really have issues with mana management, but that might be my play style. If anything hurts my mana stores for that fight, it's casting Holy a few times on plumes.

Anyway, thanks for discrediting my point of view. Good job!

EDIT: Sorry, I just refuse to spam a pointless pre-heal that shouldn't even be a single target buff. I'd rather SS cost 3x as much and AOE everyone. Anyway, I use it situationally in a fight, such as before sisters pop on OT/MT and before wheel. But, sorry, I am not going to spend 30 seconds target/casting SS on people when there really is no need, or the group is likely going to wipe over and over anyway. SS won't do anything to avoid learning curve wipes.

Why am I defending myself? I am doing it right.

[Hitome]

You're really assuming things here. In Titan HM, not every tank is super geared, what if you're helping a tank get their relic? Do you know how hard it is for a tank that isn't relic to keep aggro from a fully geared healer? That stoneskin in the beginning allows the WHM to skip a Medica (assuming theres a SCH in the party who can Succor it) effectively lowering their hate in the beginning considerably. What if you're solo healing? (Which is very possible for a geared WHM to do, if there's a Bard in the party) That stoneskin prevents a Medica, you can instead wait until the next tumults or jump. Solo healing WHMs draw MASSIVE aggro, and every bit counts. But you wouldn't know, considering your WHM isn't 50 yet.

Do you know how many times I run Titan HM DF a day? Or look for PF groups doing Titan on my SCH? This is not just an issue where you think I've seen it a couple times and have misjudged WHMs completely: this occurs quite frequently.

I am almost always stuck solo healing post heart because the other healer ends up dead.

The stoneskin in the beginning is actually just a waste of time and a crutch: similar to building LB. If you need to build LB on Titan, you are not ready for Titan. If you need to stoneskin pre-pull on Titan, your healers are not ready for Titan. It's really as simple as that.

We never were discussing solo healing Titan HM. If I wanted a class to solo heal Titan HM, I'd take a SCH over a WHM due to all the issues you just brought up (which are really non-issues for most competent WHMs).

Yes solo healing WHM draws massive aggro when you play it like trash just like how my Eos draws massive aggro when I use a rouse'd whispering dawn when the party is already near full HP. The overhealing generates a crap ton of aggro. Same for medica 2.

It isn't a hard issue. SCHs deal with it by splitting threat between the fairy and themselves. WHM have this lovely ability called shroud which serves two purposes.

My alt's WHM is actually 50. I heal, on my SCH, with competent WHMs who have no issues with threat and don't stoneskin pre-pull because they realize it isn't needed on Titan.

I list a crap ton of fights where I think stoneskin pre-pull is worth it and ones where it isn't. Titan is not one of them.

I don't think stoneskin pre-pull is all useless: I think on certain fights it is, though.

Stating that you think SCHs don't have to deal with mana issues or threat is hilarious. Get YOUR SCH to 50 before talking about healing from a SCH PoV. Meanwhile, my WHM alt and SCH main will continue to heal DF Titan HM without incident.

Except for the fact that you effectively just wasted 1000 MP vs waiting a mere 24 seconds to cast SS on everyone before the fight for 0 MP.

This is the point we're trying to get through your thick skull: that MP is irrelevant. If you are running into MP issues on either healer, you have certain things to look at:

1) People are dying and you are having to res frequently (not a healer issue)
2) You are bad and spamming AoE heals when you don't need to be
3) You are shrouding when you shouldn't be, wasting mana regeneration because you pulled hate spamming medica like a dolt instead of letting the other healer pick up the slack

Edit: Why am I not surprised? Half the WHMs who have posted in this thread have done nothing relevant in terms of endgame healing.