Every PVP MMO normalizes gear in PVP

[Daenerys_Sedai]

I like what GW and GW2 did for PvP. The normalization of gear meant skill>gear. Yes, your "progression" was for looks and rank emotes, but people DO play towards that. There are also tournaments etc. It meant that you spent more time coming up with tactics because the field was more level.

Those arguing for PvP with gear imbalances, I can see the draw to purchase that leeter gear, but your stomping of a foe with lesser gear seems a little less praiseworthy.
Personally, I'd feel much more accomplished knowing that my team beat an equally geared team due to skill than I would if my team were, say all iLvl 90 and going against ilvl 55 (that may just be me, iunno). SE could put stuff in place to make sure that, when pitted, teams are matched based on ilvl, but then why not just normalize gear from the get go?

agree with above zdub: if you think PvP without progression is pointless, then you're not really looking for balanced, fair PvP. I get a sense that it's just a matter of stomping on those with lesser gear..

[LloydShade]

No one likes being outgeared in structured PVP and losing due to someone doing 30% more damage than you anymore, keep that in world PVP and out of structured PVP like the only PVP we currently have.

Please allow me to use the sentence I quoted from your post, as this is were I believe you are the most wrong. Let's have a look at the opposite statement:
"Everyone likes being outgeared in structured PVP and winning due to be able to do 30% more damage than the opponents." Since this is reasoning with absolute, it is therefore wrong, but I'm betting it's a lot closer to reality than your statement.

This game is a MMORPG. By definition, you are meant to level up, get stronger, face stronger foes and slaughter countless weaker opponents than yourself. This is the very core of a RPG and what RPG players expects from a RPG game. Being a MMO just means that a lot of other players are progressing in the same world as yourself. Whether you want to stand at the top of these players or not is irrelevant. You want to get stronger and the game will comply to your needs to do so.

I believe that true display of skills is only possible when the odds are stacked against you. If you are absolutely equal to your opponent stat-wise, then you must take into account lag, game bugs, class inequalities, computer power, keyboard speed, random number generator for damage... Both of you may press on your respective keyboard/controller the same key at the exact same time, but end up with one character striking first for maximal critical hit damage, while the other goes second with minimal damage. There is no skill in that. Maybe luck at most. Therefore, your victories might all be considered to be luck-related.

On the other hand, go against a superior force, significantly better geared, while being under-geared and manage to steal the victory, there can't be luck in that. The opponent outgearing you will have an absolute damage output much higher than you and a damage input much lower than you. Winner this battle fairly is therefore only explained by pure skill. The opponent can of course find excuses, but the fact remains that you should have lost and you won. Problem is, not many players are actually skilled or want to spend enough time to reach that level. Therefore, they go for the gear advantage. If they can endure losing long enough, they will get better gear and start winning against weaker opponents.

This is RPG logic. Cover your weaknesses with companions and/or powerful gear and save/conquer the world. Standing on the top doesn't mean to have the best skills, it means a combination of dedication, skill, experience, training and gear to back you up. Again, RPG logic. If it was fair, than young heroes would never thwart a villain's masterplan that took years of efforts, training and preparation to achieve, simply by swinging around the MasterSword. We want to get the MasterSword and kick the villain's ***, in a timely fashion.

Winning is winning and not everyone thinks that a victory is only a real victory if you have out-skilled the opponent. Too easy or not, it is common knowledge that most people will enjoy the victory.

[zdub303]

On the other hand, go against a superior force, significantly better geared, while being under-geared and manage to steal the victory, there can't be luck in that. The opponent outgearing you will have an absolute damage output much higher than you and a damage input much lower than you. Winner this battle fairly is therefore only explained by pure skill. The opponent can of course find excuses, but the fact remains that you should have lost and you won. Problem is, not many players are actually skilled or want to spend enough time to reach that level. Therefore, they go for the gear advantage. If they can endure losing long enough, they will get better gear and start winning against weaker opponents.

That sounds good an all but the reality of it is that people that skilled are already geared. Those people are absolutely destroying the undergeared players and generally winning against equally geared players. On the other side, you have a large majority of 'average' players who will play for a few hours, get absolutely roflstomped due to gear disparity, and then look at the amount of grinding necessary for the necessary pvp gear and skills to even stand a chance and say "meh, pvp in this game sucks" and never play again.

[Kako0404]

Gear progression does not belong in PVP. WOW is normalizing gear in Arenas for a reason, this is not 2004 anymore, no one likes gear progression or gear imbalances in PVP, especially arena PVP. The most successful MMO on the planet is normalizing gear in PVP, everyone else should follow suit unless they don't like money.

Gear progression should be PVE and world PVP only.

IT IS NOT FUN TO LOSE DUE TO GEAR.

What? Even for WOW I'm sure gear progression in PVP extended way beyond 2004. Swtor had a decent gear grind for PVP and it worked fine. Also, the gear is only imbalance cuz you're gimped lol. Wait, why can't I wear my Lalafell Tunic for coil?! QQ . Besides, the delta between gears level in this game is not as drastic as some of the games out there where you get resisted on everything if the delta is too great.

[PhageLock]

No, this isn't 2004 anymore. Gear should NEVER be the deciding factor in PVP, if it is, you need to disable PVP until it's changed.

Your right it's not 2004 it's 2014. Are you submitting the idea that modernize PvP should hand you everything? We play this game for progression not for a quick min "equal" balance. And in-case you haven't done pvp yet, this game's is highly skilled based and situational. I like to play my drg in PvP with mix 60-70- gear and jacking up l90 players with ease.

2nd you're forgetting about the ability based on rank with another progression sink or do you want that to be handed to you? How boring would that be if everything handed to us like as you presented it. Look at Modern Warfare or other first person shooters that just hand you stuff I think that's more on the lines what you're looking for. MMO's are all about progression. Period!

[Marowit]

HAHAHAHA....no

But seriously in a game like this and wow hell any game gear equalization is bad. When everything is equal pvp then becomes a game of who CCs better and who has more burst. All this does is make balance inequality retardedly blatant. This will bee especially true for WoW and here where everything is click and mash buttons with maybe running out of aoes. Either way it's a bad idea.

The only place equalization works are in games like TERA where everything has to be aimed or dodge because while the imbalance will be pretty obvious a truly skilled player can avoid his enemies attacks and fight back. Here and in WoW all he can do is get clicked on and slept then burst down. So yeah no

[Wolf_Gang]

If you're so skilled then getting gear should be easy.

[Ri_ri]

I'd try PvP if we had normalized gear at all levels.

I'm not into getting stomped by someone just because I didn't started farming gear since the beginning. I'm bad enough without having a gear disvantage. And I need my Lustrate...

[xwxmeowxvvx]

IT IS NO FUN TO LOSE DUE TO GEAR

It really doesn't seem like your losing due to gear..... Ive experienced a very skill orientated PvP in this game so far.

Also, PvP forum!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/forums/1019-PvP

[Dorin]

Yeah basically normalize gear and people won't pvp anymore