Every PVP MMO normalizes gear in PVP

[zdub303]

Agreed Shiyo. Gear progression is what killed pvp in Tera. That game had so much potential with pvp due to its combat system but the gear disparity was just embarrassing. It was literally pointless unless you already had a full set of enchanted pvp gear.

It doesn't seem so bad right now but in about 2 months when it's i70 or don't bother.. Yeah that will be the death of pvp. Not to mention all the incredibly overpowered pvp skills locked behind rank walls. The amount of white knightery in this thread is astounding.

I think it could work in this game as long as the power disparity between tiers remained less than 5%... But we all know its more like 30%.

Most people in here just want to no-skill roflstomp newbies I suspect...

[Kirschey]

-snip for char limit-

I disagree. What killed pvp in tera was them making loser buff easier to get. 3s was a joke, considering all it was, was "try to 1combo out a dps or the healer depending on gear, didn't kill them in 1 shot? Run around doing nothing until all cds are up again"

Also, I came back to tera fairly late when it went free to play, after only playing a few months when it first came out. I had 0 pieces of pvp gear until I saved up for the fraywind(cuz victor's was a waste of time) As a healer I held rank 1 for the whole month and ended up getting the title. I had a positive k/d/a. I didn't have a premade. I won against VM/conjunct teams sometimes and sometimes I got wrecked. Tera was not as heavily gear dependent as you are making it out to be.

Back on topic:
Also, if I spend ages grinding out pvp gear, I expect to be able to use that pvp gear without it getting normalized. At that point, I deserve the edge my gear gives me over someone who has spent no time farming it. It isn't "wanting to roflstomp noobs".
Take into consideration, not everyone grinding for this gear is going to be a skilled player.

[Shiyo]

Also, if I spend ages grinding out pvp gear, I expect to be able to use that pvp gear without it getting normalized. At that point, I deserve the edge my gear gives me over someone who has spent no time farming it. It isn't "wanting to roflstomp noobs".
Take into consideration, not everyone grinding for this gear is going to be a skilled player.

That isn't how a balanced skill based competitive PVP environment works. That's how a unbalanced gear based PVP environment works.

Tera had literally the most gear based PVP I've ever experienced in my entire life. If my weapon was 1 tier ahead of their gear in PVP, I 1-2 shot them, if their gear was 1 tier ahead of my weapon, I did 10% of their total health per hit. Equal gear 1v1 both players did ~10% of eachothers health per attack, if the other player was 1 tier of head ahead they 1-2 shot you. 1 tier of gear was the difference from doing reasonable damage, 10% of their health per hit, to doing their entire health bar in a single attack.

[Kirschey]

That isn't how a balanced skill based competitive PVP environment works. That's how a unbalanced gear based PVP environment works.

You clearly didn't read the rest of my post, considering Tera had the same gear-grind as this with 3 tiers of pvp gear earned through pvping.
(Though VM was the best pvp gear...and that was earned mostly through pve..but lets not get into that.)

[ZohnoReecho]

who cares if it's not 2004. a stupid idea is stupid. unless people brains are rotting year after year so much that game companies gotta spoonfeed you and remove any challenge from the games.

i always fear this is what we'll become…

[White_Glint]

I 98% agree with the OP. In an competitive PvP environment, the only determining factor in the match should be player skill. If you think otherwise, you're likely looking to roflstomp noobs because of your leet zomg gear. Now here's where I don't agree with the OP at...FFXIV's PVP IS CLEARLY NOT MEANT TO BE COMPETITIVE. Proposing changes like these, are simply a waste of time. It's unfortunate, and a little sad. Because the pvp is very fun, and I think it has a ton of potential.

Hopefully SE is just using the current iteration of pvp to just test the waters. See how popular it is. Then maybe they'll release "Ranked" pvp, where gear is normalized and skill is all that matters. One can dream!

[yukikaze_yanagi]

I 98% agree with the OP. In an competitive PvP environment, the only determining factor in the match should be player skill. If you think otherwise, you're likely looking to roflstomp noobs because of your leet zomg gear. Now here's where I don't agree with the OP at...FFXIV's PVP IS CLEARLY NOT MEANT TO BE COMPETITIVE. Proposing changes like these, are simply a waste of time. It's unfortunate, and a little sad. Because the pvp is very fun, and I think it has a ton of potential.

Hopefully SE is just using the current iteration of pvp to just test the waters. See how popular it is. Then maybe they'll release "Ranked" pvp, where gear is normalized and skill is all that matters. One can dream!

i don't remember someone say FFXIV's pvp was meant to be an esport.

[Skyhound]

I like how everyone is trying to claim that "X" Game has a proper competitive system with normalized gear. ALL of the games that people are mentioning with normalized PVP are NOT real competitive PVP MMOs. GW and WOW? Those are your best examples? Those are a joke compared to a REAL PVP game.

By now, I must be known as the EVE fanboy because of how much I mention them; but it's just such a great example. That game's greatest selling points are it's economy and it's PvP. Hell it holds the Guinness World Record for largest single PvP battle (Over 4000 individual players and it WASN'T a game event, it just sort of happened). Guess what it has? Gear progression. The more money you have, the better ships and bigger guns you can buy and you're free to prey on anyone you want. Newbies are constantly at the mercy of better equipped pilots and they're only options is to "Adapt or Die", one of EVE's most well known slogans.

[Illya]

I disagree. What killed pvp in tera was them making loser buff easier to get. 3s was a joke, considering all it was, was "try to 1combo out a dps or the healer depending on gear, didn't kill them in 1 shot? Run around doing nothing until all cds are up again"

Also, I came back to tera fairly late when it went free to play, after only playing a few months when it first came out. I had 0 pieces of pvp gear until I saved up for the fraywind(cuz victor's was a waste of time) As a healer I held rank 1 for the whole month and ended up getting the title. I had a positive k/d/a. I didn't have a premade. I won against VM/conjunct teams sometimes and sometimes I got wrecked. Tera was not as heavily gear dependent as you are making it out to be.

This is a terrible example because healers in Tera were basically unkillable if played right. I'm sure you played a Priest. You took I think it was 30% or 40% the damage of other classes in the game and usually less in PvP. You had multiple escape skills which also stunned attackers. You could stack Reflect on your gear and combine that with your reduced damage taken and become an invincible God. All you had to do was follow a Lancer around and the Lancer would take care of anybody attacking you while you healed yourself and the Lancer.

Your example speaks more to the staggering class imbalances in Tera's PvP. Make no mistake, gear imbalance made Tera PvP stupid, but the class imbalance could mitigate that somewhat if you were one of the OP classes and your opponents were the weak classes.

So Tera was hugely gear dependent, but even more class dependent. Both were hopelessly imbalanced in Tera, which is why Tera is probably the single most imbalanced awful PvP game I have ever played. And it's a shame, because the action combat system had so much potential.

Speaking of Tera's gear imbalances, until they finally introduced normalized gear BGs long after everyone but the BRs quit, a Lancer with full VM could literally kill you with a single regular attack combo. Full HP to zero just by mashing their basic attack. Balanced PvP right there.

And yeah, to get VM, you had to kill the Queen a lot. You had to be a PvE hero to get the best PvP set in the game. That was a brilliant design decision on Bluehole's part in addition to all their other brilliant design decisions. Tera died almost instantly in the West for a reason: it sucked at endgame. There was no class balance. There was no gear balance. You basically had one really hard dungeon that you ran over and over forever, because once you could kill the Queen nothing else was worth doing in the game at all. What a great game that was. LOL

[Someonewithclap]

Without ladders and rank, gear progression is the only reason for doing PVP. Gear should matter.

WoW PVP has been shit since BC and GW2 was never good.