Bard role changed from Support to Caster Pet

[Lenarr]

I do get why they pulled it though. Bards being able to throw that around in PvP? We'd be mandatory for all fights in the Wolves Den to keep your team from taking too much damage. That's probably the main reason they changed it, something I really should have seen coming. Too bad it effects us in dungeons too.

This is basically a PvE game. If the tacked on PvP part ends up significantly impacting PvE, that's going to be really bad. MMO's like eq2 basically modifiy spells/abilities based on whether one is engaged in PvE or PvP. For example, sleep duration and immunity would be completely different for PvE and PvP. If PvE gets changed for the sake of PvP balance, that'll be bad news.

[Bardo]

... and 10% crit from a 25% uptime buff.
Giving you rough numbers .... a 1.25% dps loss.

The Internal release nerf is more than 10% off a 25% up-time crit buff.
You can't ignore River of Blood and the fact that you can re-apply your dots before IR expires to keep that 20% going for another ~18 seconds.

All said and done, it's probably going to turn out to be close to a 7.5% DPS nerf to a class that was already 20% behind at endgame. Which would be totally fine if they compensated with tweaks to our support to make it a bit better.

INSTEAD, they even nerfed our support...
If that's not something to worry about, then honestly, I don't know what is.

Even though Bards consider the RoD debuff trasnfer from Brd to War a nerf, I never really saw many bards use it unless asked. In all honesty, the only time i saw bards use it consistantly is in turn 4.

Death Sentence? Titan Stomps? WP speedruns? There were several important uses for it.
It's no different than if they moved Sacred soil to War as a new single target ability.
Any idea how many scholars would sh*& a brick if that happened?

Now, since war will have it he won't have to bother the bard to get it and the bard can concentrate on DPS more?

Except they just nerfed our dps... so...

[Norondor]

INSTEAD, they even nerfed our support...
If that's not something to worry about, then honestly, I don't know what is.

Hey, i don't think bards have anything to worry about, the way coil is designed (until groups start remembering that paladins and monks also have silence)

[Bardo]

Hey, I don't think bards have anything to worry about, the way coil is designed (until groups start remembering that paladins and monks also have silence)

Well, it's really ONLY Turn2. Without RoD, None of our support will matter as much for any of the other turns.
I mean as long as you have a few mages, Bard is still going to be ok for any 8 man content due to Foe Req.

But that's not the point.
You can't balance a class based on 1 dungeon or group setup.
Unfortunately, Coil is only a small portion of the game so a LOT of Bards who aren't raiding are going to get left by the wayside with these changes.

[Kinseykinz]

Then why was the least used skill in the game nerfed
(that'd be shadowbind)

Moogle King Battle.

[Leonus]

Death Sentence? Titan Stomps? WP speedruns? There were several important uses for it.

Most bards I have seen do not use it on Titan stomps, Don't think I've actually seen it. Also, even if they did and you gave the -10% damage debuf to war who was tanking it, he is more likely to apply it on a regular basis because his tanking depends on it. He now doesn't have to bother the bard for it.

WP speed runs, we're counting that for it's usefulness? Okay I guess.

It's no different than if they moved Sacred soil to War as a new single target ability.
Any idea how many scholars would sh*& a brick if that happened?

This comparison is a bit of a stretch to me, considering Sacred soil is used more often than not to decrease unavoidable AoE damage. RoD was more used to help the tank when tanking groups of mobs (and the healer). Grant it, it would still help a lot for large groups of mobs, that the tank should be holding aggro on, I.E turn 4. This also helps on your speed runs, which we all know SE isn't fond of. It was an inadvertent way of nerfing speed runs imo.

Except they just nerfed our dps... so...

From what I understand, the nerf to your DPS was not very significant compared to BLM or SMN. Only time will tell though I guess.

I know this much, if they had given it to war and allowed bard to keep it. They definitely would not have stacked (that much I'm sure of), so bards would use it even less unless they were continuously fighting large groups of mobs.

[Phai]

honestly, brd should stop crying...

people were always looking for BRD for coil.... almost every party had 2 brd

its just a balance, you will always been wanted for your special role

Wrong, no decent coil grp stack'd 2 brd's in coild pre 2.1.
This is not a class Balance, its a casual player Balance.

And tbh, stop using the Word crying if ur past the age of 12, couse its an opinion about classes and content, not crying.

[Viridiana]

Wrong, no decent coil grp stack'd 2 brd's in coild pre 2.1.
This is not a class Balance, its a casual player Balance.

And tbh, stop using the Word crying if ur past the age of 12, couse its an opinion about classes and content, not crying.

Err. . .world first Twintania clear by BG had 2x BRD. Don't know why, since they barely used the songs at all; but I'm not going to say they don't qualify as a decent coil group.

[Vortok]

Warrior can only apply the debuff to one thing at a time, and it's at the end of a 3 hit combo that doesn't have an enmity multiplier. It'll be used, because Maim is a thing and the debuff is good, but it won't really be applied to groups of enemies anymore whereas it'll be up more reliably against bosses (especially if WAR is OT).

[Phai]

Err. . .world first Twintania clear by BG had 2x BRD. Don't know why, since they barely used the songs at all; but I'm not going to say they don't qualify as a decent coil group.

And hence all copy/pasted the setup, tho its Clear 2 brds pre 2.1 is gimped. The reason ppl shout for 2 brds for grps are due to silence duty, and this issue still stands.
No one can say that 2x brd is OP/needed due to dps or utility in coil.