SMN - Why it is not a very interesting job and not a good upgrade from ACN

[whiskeybravo]

If the Limit Break system is ever expanded, I would love to see something like this for Summoners.

That would actually be really cool. BLM gets Meteor LB, SUM gets a bad ass Esper or whatever you wanna call it LB. Could be the same AoE damage effect just different animations to spice things up a bit.

[Omagana]

What about Contagion followed by Bane? You save 1 AetherFlow (More or less) and you can use a Fester instead of reapplying Dot then Bane.. So yeah extra dmg

Quite true, but I was referring to single target DPS. My point was the OP's logic on contagion was flawed in regards to single target (at least that is how it appears when reading)
Edit: Also, the OP does mention bane with contagion.

MyHappy made a pretty decent video comparison of Garuda and Ifrit Egi here

[Taerus]

Tbh, a lot of good points were made for and against the SMN in this thread. Just clarifying before anything on my end this is not about the actual damage of the SMN, as far as I'm concerned it is a good competitor in the dps aspect.

Firstly, since this mmo focuses on a more active approach than classical turn based systems, it is without saying that niches and mechanics that are unexpected need to be introduced or even removed to adjust to the correct game-play style, hence I believe it was clearly decided that for the usual DoT class, SMN's would be the best current fit. In a way, it makes sense since it shouldn't be a carbon copy of the BLM, however on note I do agree that SMN right now still feels detached from its pet to the point that in fights you can nearly completely forget about it aside from the occasional heal/contagion or random stun. It is sad that, indeed, the SMN does not feel as it should as compared to the typical class we all know and love, but as a previous poster mentioned, a pet class is extremely difficult to balance.

With healing, like the SCH, I think the execution was a step in the right direction since it really feels a part of the class, sure you can leave it doing its own thing, but if you sit commanding it you will definitely notice a difference all round. I just don't see that happening with the SMN pets, unfortunately, and simply increasing damage to the point where the caster supports the pet, will ,as mentioned, also possibly leave the caster sitting and watching the fight.

I spoke to a few fellow summoners on the matter about possible suggestions, since any complaint should be at least backed up by our own wild fantasies (:P) , but realistically, if the egi system is to be maintained, it would be nice to see some of their abilities perhaps replaced with ones that offer synergy to the caster, a good example would be the party buffs from selene as a SCH. Contagion is a great example of a skill with synergy, but unfortunately in end-game, that is possibly one of the few and only abilities across most of the summons which retain that synergy.

Another radical idea was discussed was to look at what would happen if, say, the entire egi system were to be revamped. Now before people go crazy, I am also aware at how improbable something like this suggestion would be since the game is in full swing. However, anyway, here's a lick of insanity.

If the egi system were to be removed/changed, as mentioned due to bad synergy with how the class feels, and the caster was kept exactly as it is, the extra 'summons' you get through the SMN line acts as actual skills. That didn't make much sense, so let me go into a bit more detail. Instead of, say, summoning ifrit egi, when you activate the skill you summon ifrit/egi to do something similar to what enkindle does albeit the summon doesn't stick around, this will give it the old nostalgic feel where most of the summons were usually abilities casted by the summons before they disappeared again, this would allow you to actually include it in your rotation with other summons and your own skills, albeit damage obviously would need to be adjusted.

However on that note, of course the idea of a constant pet will be removed, which will take away from the experience of many. Another idea flung around was similar to the FFX approach. Again, no egi's as usual, however after dotting up what you need, you could use the summon as a switch mechanic, that being you swap out your caster character for the actual summon, best way to explain it would be literally if you played as the ifrit egi (hopefully something a bit better looking but that's my own personal woe) which would be a fire-dmg melee type with a certain skill set, whereas Garuda would possibly be a ranged type with similar mechanics to wind-burst etc... Perhaps you could say the influence would be similar to the druids in WoW? I dunno as said stroke of insanity perhaps.

[Vermithrax]

While I haven't played summoner at 50 in a raiding environment I have a few ideas just from the small experience I have.

Leave us with Carbuncles as pets, the tank pet and caster pet have a perfectly effective kit for parties and trash in dungeons/raids.

Our enkindle ability should be given to us at 50 and should be three abilities (Enkindle Ifrit, Enkindle Titan, Enkindle Garuda.) Or give them at the same levels they are now, but just make them do what I posted below.

This ability would transform our current carbuncle into an avatar of the primal we choose, they would need to be resized to reflect the increase in power. This ability would last two minutes and the pets would get a completely different kit (not just reskins of carbuncle abilities like what titan and garuda get.) Would remain on a five minute cooldown.

Each avatar would provide a unique combat advanatage and depending on the situation would need to be summoned to battle. Titan would be primarily a defensive avatar, attacks would reduce damage the boss inflicts, place status effects on the boss and boost the group/raid with more HP and defenses. Ifrit would be more of a melee oriented buff and a single target attacker. (becuase thats where he stands) increased melee critical chance, attack speed, reduced emnity. Garuda would be a caster buff, increased critical chance, skill speed and reduced emnity as well. However, Garuda would be more designed as an AOE caster rather than a single target avatar like Ifrit.

This would change our dynamic as summoners and provide us not only a damage role but a "support" role as well. Depending on the situation and the fight we would need to use a different avatar to support combat. Brings us more in line with the true FF "Summoner" we've come to love. Our pets in their current form are just dps boosters and bring nothing that can really change the tide of a battle the way summons are supposed to in Final Fantasy.

Rather than just making the pets ..... well.....pets.... Make them actual summons and avatars of powerful creatures that can really sway a battle your way when used properly.

A few ability changes I would like to see are:

Bane: Remove the aetherflow requiremenet and add a 20sec CD. Makes it not spammable and only capable of spreading fresh dots. Also, remove the potential to reset the dots on the target.

Fester: Keep fester as is, but give it the potential to reset dots and increase the chance to 20%.

Energy Drain: Everyone is always looking for a spell from summoners to front end damage on those fights when you need to burst something down NOW. This is where energy drain comes in. Add Energy Drain II to our kit. This ability would no longer restore mana to us and in exchange increase the damage the ability does. Leave Energy Drain I unaffected.

[Zoeila]

my biggest problem with summoner is how boring it is. since it's already somewhat of a hybrid with it's ability to heal why not add some support abilities like in ff11? hell directly copy if you want. ifrit=aoe dmg boost,titan=aoe stoneskin,garuda=uh....no blink so maybe aoe featherfoot? basically i want something to do when bane is on cooldown that isnt ruin spam.

[T0rin]

sorry for multiple posts....character limit....

Protip: Edit your original post, it allows you to bypass the character limit.

[T0rin]

my biggest problem with summoner is how boring it is.

Personally, I find it quite entertaining. I like the wide variety of stuff you have to do, all the various cooldowns, timers and counters you need to keep track of and balance properly to ensure everything weaves together properly. I find most other classes boring in comparison, because it is just a simple skill rotation.

since it's already somewhat of a hybrid with it's ability to heal why not add some support abilities like in ff11? hell directly copy if you want. ifrit=aoe dmg boost,titan=aoe stoneskin,garuda=uh....no blink so maybe aoe featherfoot?

Arcanist, the base class, has a small splash of white magic. (Physick) It is a DPS class, not a healing class. (Scholar) If anything, AoE Stoneskin and AoE Featherfoot would be more in line with Scholar. I'd much prefer Summoner to remain a DPS class, and think that when you dilute it with too much support nonsense, you end up with a worthless piece of crap like it was in FFXI.

basically i want something to do when bane is on cooldown that isnt ruin spam.

Thunder, Tri-disaster, Shadow Flare, Miasma II, Fester, Spur, Rouse, Aerial Blast and Enkindle?

[Vermithrax]

Protip: Edit your original post, it allows you to bypass the character limit.

Tahnk you for the tip!

[Parodine]

Thunder, Tri-disaster, Shadow Flare, Miasma II, Fester, Spur, Rouse, Aerial Blast and Enkindle?

People actually use Tri-Disaster? I'll give you the rest though.

[T0rin]

People actually use Tri-Disaster? I'll give you the rest though.

If you're doing AoE on 3 or more targets it will out-DPS Ruin, or you need to Bind a group of mobs, yeah.

It is a mana hog though, so you need to be confident in your ability to regain your mana. It does have some use in end-game content, namely BC Turn 4. Though not much.